Downsizing Contracted AROTC

[goaliedad]

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*Edit* Hand positioning doesn't really matter as being wider than shoulder width usually becomes more difficult because there is less chest involvement. I have never seen on anyone campus or at LDAC getting corrected for hand positioning. I use the wide arm approach to get more use out of back and less on my triceps. According to the regs your body needs to be in a generally straight line and your arms should lock out in the up position and 90 degrees on the down approach. Bad push ups either involve the person bowing their back, doing the "worm", not coming all the way up, not going low enough or sagging.

You want to be good at pushups? Lift. I never do pushups and I max them every time. You need to shock your muscle fibers so a good blend of incline/reg push up super sets and weight lifting will easily allow you to max the test even in a LDAC environment. I lost 7 at LDAC because I stopped lifting a month prior to drop weight for the run.

doing the worm...

Actually the reason why they sag is that they don't do enough core exercises. Situps aren't even half of the equation and aren't the thing that keep you from sagging. Exercises where your upper torso is suspended in mid-air (horizontal off of bench or inverted while hanging) will do more for your core than any situp.

 

[educateme]

something from my son's email today that confirms all the discussions we have been having on this forum. One of the battalion officers gave a "scare talk" to the cadets.

Apparently Cadet Command is getting more agressive in pushing cadets out. Now if you get a ticket whose fine is over $250 or a "major offense" you can be let go. Same with underage drinking and a host of other things

cadets, walk straight and narrow!

 

[Ohio2015Parent]

something from my son's email today that confirms all the discussions we have been having on this forum. One of the battalion officers gave a "scare talk" to the cadets.



cadets, walk straight and narrow!

Glad to hear they've been given a clear understanding of this situation. DS is a lot more focused since realizing his contract in on the line. Playing poker safely in the dorm is now the MS1s' idea of a good Saturday night

 

[goaliedad]

Glad to hear they've been given a clear understanding of this situation. DS is a lot more focused since realizing his contract in on the line. Playing poker safely in the dorm is now the MS1s' idea of a good Saturday night

Don't bet on it.

 

[educateme]

Another interesting tid bit he shared:

One officer said he does not agree with giving HS 4 years scholarships, since not all cadets who looked good on paper turns out to be a good officer material,and a better thing to do is to award campus scholarship or even national scholarship with battalion input after a semester or two. The officer further elaborated that he let go of a 4 year scholarship cadets previously, and he won't hesitate to do this again, especially in current environment.

My son said, there is already a writing on the wall that one of the 4 year scholarship cadets in his battalion (from a cross town affiliate school) stands a good chance of being let go based on everything that is going on. His personal goal is to maintain his GPA at a level significantly above 3.5 and APFT above 300, plus continuing membership in the Ranger Challenger team and a few leadership positions. He does not feel that anything is a given even though he is a 4 year scholarship cadet.

As a parent, I am gratified that ROTC participation matured him quite a bit: he feels the weighty nature of the consequences of his action and choices for the dream he aspires to. This is a wonderful thing watch.

 

[Ohio2015Parent]

Glad to hear they've been given a clear understanding of this situation. DS is a lot more focused since realizing his contract in on the line. Playing poker safely in the dorm is now the MS1s' idea of a good Saturday night

Don't bet on it.

They'll get bored with this soon - when the weather gets warm all heck will break out again Trying to convince DS camping at some near by state parks on weekends is safer than hanging out "uptown" at his nationally ranked party school

Educateme,

DS's battallion has already disenrolled one scholarship cadet(underage and then possession of pot). There was also another scholarship cadet that walked away about 5 weeks into the first quarter so maybe the officer you mention in on to something. DS is just grateful his bad APFT run didn't completely wipe out his repuatation with the cadre(also didn't hurt that 75% of the entire battallion had trouble with the run too, think its a good thing there are no more 6 week Christmas breaks in this school's future).
It has been good to see DS grow thru his mistake. Glad your son is keeping his act together and doing so well.

 

[Pima]

Educateme.

I get where he is coming from, and whether they change the system (unlikely) or not, what posters and lurkers should take from their comment is they will cut you and have no problem sleeping well that night.

I have been here for 4 yrs, and I can easily state that in the 4 yrs here the last 3-6 months has had more posts in that short time period regarding dis-enrolled, academic probation, etc., than I have seen in total for the last 3 1/2 yrs.

It is not just AROTC, it is every branch.

Nobody with a scholarship should think they are safe, and that even as a sr. in college they are going to be commissioned. This is 4 yrs of constantly performing and proving yourself that you are the best.

 

[Jcleppe]

AROTC has already tightened up over the last couple years. What Educateme shared has been SOP for the last couple years as well. CC has lowered the tolerance for alcohol infractions to Zero about 2 years ago. She is right battalions and CC are less likely to let anything slide now, scholarship or not.

Non contracted cadets are the ones most effected by the cutbacks, they will be looking hard at each cadet before offering a contract. SMP's will have the first year to prove themselves, if not they will be cut prior to their sophomore year. Walk ons' will have two years, if they can make it through the first year to prove themselves and contract their junior year.

The one thing a lot of cadets and applicants forget is that the 3 year AD Scholarship is not a guaranteed contract. These cadets still have to prove themselves during their freshman year, if they don't measure up to the battalion standards the PMS can decline the offer.

The key to AROTC is to get contracted, if you fulfill the terms of the contract, don't do something stupid and get no legal infractions or medical issues you will likely commission, be towards the bottom you may be forced reserves but still commission. As it has been said, a scholarship does not give you a better standing, it does get you contracted as early as your freshman year which is a benefit. Once contracted you are on the same footing as all contracted cadets, scholarship or not.

The size of your class will have a lot to do with the battalion competition for contracts. Some battalions have upwards of 50 to 60 MS1's and a Mission to contract only 20 or 25. Cadets in this group will be fighting for survival. Other battalions will have a current class that is just slightly over, equal to, or even under the Contract Mission. Cadets at these schools do not face the same stressful competition.

I'm sure there are people that will post about how that can be a bit unfair. A cadets with a 3.1 GPA and a 260 APFT may be cut at school with a very large MS1 class that is looking to get much smaller. A cadet with those stats at a school that is within their mission will be safe and remain in the program. Sometimes that really large popular Battalion can have it's drawbacks, something to think about when selecting schools.

The best a cadet can do is to work hard and keep their nose clean.

One other thing, don't stress out to much about leadership positions. Try and get whatever you can but don't feel if you didn't make CO, XO or Battalion Commander you somehow have lost ground. My son was never CO, XO or BC, he was a SL once and the S3 and CSM this year,oh and Color Guard Commander one semester. He is graduating top of his ROTC class and finished in the top 6.4% Nationally, any leadership position counts the same on the OMS.

 

[Packer]

Another interesting tid bit he shared:

One officer said he does not agree with giving HS 4 years scholarships, since not all cadets who looked good on paper turns out to be a good officer material,and a better thing to do is to award campus scholarship or even national scholarship with battalion input after a semester or two.

He may be missing the point that these scholarships are simply recruitment tools. The army knows that every kid that gets a scholarship is not going to work out but enough do.

If a kid is in the battalion, doing really well and completely committed to becoming an officer what incentive does this kid need to stick around? None. He may get a scholarship though and others will see this and hopefully be incentivized to work as hard as the cadet that did get the scholarship. Same thing in high school. Kids see that those before them received a "full ride" courtesy of the army so they take a look when they otherwise would not have.

Just my opinion.

 

[kinnem]

He may be missing the point that these scholarships are simply recruitment tools. The army knows that every kid that gets a scholarship is not going to work out but enough do.

If a kid is in the battalion, doing really well and completely committed to becoming an officer what incentive does this kid need to stick around? None. He may get a scholarship though and others will see this and hopefully be incentivized to work as hard as the cadet that did get the scholarship. Same thing in high school. Kids see that those before them received a "full ride" courtesy of the army so they take a look when they otherwise would not have.

Just my opinion.

I wholeheartedly agree Packer. Unfortunately my kid is in the "completely committed" category, much to the chagrin of my wallet.

 

[Packer]

I wholeheartedly agree Packer. Unfortunately my kid is in the "completely committed" category, much to the chagrin of my wallet.

Sorry about that wallet! I would guess that the joy of seeing your son succeed is worth the price of admission.

 

[dunninla]

If a kid is in the battalion, doing really well and completely committed to becoming an officer what incentive does this kid need to stick around?

Unfortunately, I think you're right.

High School ROTC Scholarship Board: need-blind
In-College ROTC scholarship offer (or 3 yr. AD upgrade): need-aware

I believe the PMS has objectives to meet, one of which, at least until these past few months, os how many cadets are participating in Basic Course, and Advanced Course. So a PMS with $10,000 in newly-released scholarship money to apply within the Battalion would first award that where? :

-to the strong college programmer cadet who has informed the cadre that he/she will have to leave the ROTC program to take a 20 hr. /wk job in order to stay in school, or,
-to the equally strong cadet who can continue in ROTC without scholarship.

The PMS maximizes the resources at her/his disposal by choosing to apply the newly budgeted money to the first cadet. This scenario, by the way, is detailed in the 2004 PMS Procedures manual CCR- 145 -1, but as was pointed out in another post, that is now old. I don't know how to find a newer version of same, but common sense says that particular dynamic hasn't changed.

 

[Ohio2015Parent]

Update...

DS will be retesting the APFT on Thursday, 3/8 in a balmy Ohio winter moring temp. of 50 degrees....yep, Ohioland has been very mild this winter - good thing for DS since running in the cold is not his friend.

Unfortunately he called last night and is sick with some cold/crud...motrin, sudafed, sleep and hydration....told him to suck it up.

The weeks of remedial PT have improved his score - he took an APFT for his guard unit 2 weeks ago and was 1 shy of max reps sit/push ups and still running about 15:00 in the cold that weekend.

Fingers crossed for him -- thanks guys will post his results good or bad

 

[patentesq]

Good luck!! Not sure whether it's gonna help, but I just said a prayer for your DS!!

 

[kinnem]

Update...

DS will be retesting the APFT on Thursday, 3/8 in a balmy Ohio winter moring temp. of 50 degrees....yep, Ohioland has been very mild this winter - good thing for DS since running in the cold is not his friend.

Unfortunately he called last night and is sick with some cold/crud...motrin, sudafed, sleep and hydration....told him to suck it up.

The weeks of remedial PT have improved his score - he took an APFT for his guard unit 2 weeks ago and was 1 shy of max reps sit/push ups and still running about 15:00 in the cold that weekend.

Fingers crossed for him -- thanks guys will post his results good or bad

Good luck to your DS. Hopefully he will be recovered sufficiently to perform well. I look forward to hearing his great results!

 

[Jcleppe]

Update...

DS will be retesting the APFT on Thursday, 3/8 in a balmy Ohio winter moring temp. of 50 degrees....yep, Ohioland has been very mild this winter - good thing for DS since running in the cold is not his friend.

Unfortunately he called last night and is sick with some cold/crud...motrin, sudafed, sleep and hydration....told him to suck it up.

The weeks of remedial PT have improved his score - he took an APFT for his guard unit 2 weeks ago and was 1 shy of max reps sit/push ups and still running about 15:00 in the cold that weekend.

Fingers crossed for him -- thanks guys will post his results good or bad

Tell your son good luck from us.

It must be a timing thing, both my son's caught the flu the week of their APFT, older one said he threw up before the PU's, before the SU's and after the run. Gives a whole new meaning to Gutting it out, HaHa.

Younger one got over the flu but was still a bit weak and about 3 lbs lighter he said, no throwing up but still not fun.

I told them to load up on Vitamin C the week before, not sure it works but worth a shot.

Tell your son to find someone that runs a bit faster then him and then pace with him as long as he can, Sounds like he's set for the PU and SU's, good luck to him.

 

[Ohio2015Parent]

Thanks guys for the support!! DS is feeling a lot better today and is ready to go tomorrow morning. Sorry to hear the Jcleppe boys were down with the flu - yuck, nothing worse than puking and physical activity Keeping my fingers crossed he keeps his OML spot in the top 10. A lot of the other SMPs are leaving for BCT 1April - quarter school so they're missing spring to go BCT/AIT straight thru so this is their last chance to really make an impression. DS doesn't leave for BCT until June and will be back to school for fall so he has more time to build his relationship with our new PMS - never a bad thing unless he knows your name for the wrong reasons.....

Thanks again - take care

 

[OhioSoccerMom]

From one Buckeye to another... hoping your DS has a great night of sleep tonight and is feeling better in the morning! Lots of "crud" floating around the Buckeye state these days... everyone I know has been saying what a WONDERFUL winter we've had (and I've certainly enjoyed it!!), except we've all been sick from it!

Will for sure say a prayer that he is feeling well, and does even better than he thought he could!

 

[Ohio2015Parent]

Hey -- all of your thoughts and prayers must have helped...267 (70,74,14:50). Weather was mild but raining and yes, they do all events outside. Don't think getting soaked makes anyone feel great - but DS is just thrilled to have passed it Grades will be out in a few weeks(exams start now-3/16) so a new OML will be issued soon.

Ohiosoccermom - pm me sometime - which branch? DS or DD? you know, all the stuff we file about our kiddos.

I hate that he was able to "get away" with not training over his long Christmas break - but I guess having to do remedial all this past quarter may have taught him to take physical fitness a little more seriously.

Take care all.

 

[Jcleppe]

Hey -- all of your thoughts and prayers must have helped...267 (70,74,14:50). Weather was mild but raining and yes, they do all events outside. Don't think getting soaked makes anyone feel great - but DS is just thrilled to have passed it Grades will be out in a few weeks(exams start now-3/16) so a new OML will be issued soon.

Ohiosoccermom - pm me sometime - which branch? DS or DD? you know, all the stuff we file about our kiddos.

I hate that he was able to "get away" with not training over his long Christmas break - but I guess having to do remedial all this past quarter may have taught him to take physical fitness a little more seriously.

Take care all.

That's great, glad he was able to pass. Will this put him in a good position for contracting next year. Good luck to him.