Enlisted Applicant Question

[elorodelmar4]

Currently, I am serving in the U.S. Navy, and am currently in "A School" (technical training for my rate/MOS). I need help understanding what next to do in the process of seeking my nomination.
I understand that since I am currently enlisted, I must apply for SECNAV (the Secretary of the Navy nomination). This nomination must also be accompanied by an endorsement by the Commanding Officer. However, I am running into problems with my Chain of Command in securing his endorsement and applying for SECNAV.
My Chief will not be able to help me, since he says that an evaluation is required for me, and that they cannot write much for me since I am in a student status. I believe that he also said that he talked with his officer over the schoolhouse, and they came to this conclusion.
Is there any hope in seeking an audience with the CO with a meritorious mast?
My problem is that, I may not have enough time to impress my next command and sub-sequentially earn the SECNAV and receive an endorsement by the CO.

Can anyone give me some help or insight into this situation?

 

[Capt MJ]

Prior enlisted frequently come out of the nuke schoolhouse pipeline, same situation, duty under instruction evals. Not everyone comes in from a Fleet or Corps operational tour.

Arm yourself with good talking points by calling the senior enlisted admissions officer, usually a Chief or Senior Chief. Have your HS stats and SAT scores handy, “ask the Chief” by calling Admissions at the general number and asking for the enlisted admissions counselor, as well as the name and email, in case you have to send something by email or follow up. See what advice you get there so you can smooth the path for your package with your own COC. Be candid about your situation and your COC hesitation, ask specific questions about what Admissions is looking for from chain of command, take copious notes.

Presumably you have no conduct issues, no military performance issues (PRT), top grades in your schoolhouse, not married, no dependents, will not age out and be over 23 before Induction Day and are a squared-away sailor. Most prior enlisted go to NAPS for a year.

Be sure and read every page, drop-down and link relating to admissions in USNA.edu, so you don’t waste anyone’s time.

410-293-1858 General Admissions

Active Duty and Reserve Applicants

Active Duty and Reserve Applicants page for Admissions at USNA.edu. Updated Tue Apr 09 05:23:10 EDT 2024.

www.usna.edu

Good luck! Keep us posted. Glad you found us.

 

[elorodelmar4]

Thank you! Do you think it would make any difference that I am not a nuke? I'm an AC (air traffic controller).

 

[Capt MJ]

Thank you! Do you think it would make any difference that I am not a nuke? I'm an AC (air traffic controller).

Not at all - I just mentioned that schoolhouse because they tend to have certain types of scores, and that schoolhouse knows how to help them. ACs are not short on brains, either! Do your homework, and take your shot. I don’t think USNA ever completely fills its annual allotment of Fleet seats. If you meet the criteria and your COC has nothing bad to say about you, there is no reason you can’t be a competitive candidate.

Use the Search function here on SAF - look for threads about prior enlisted. Even easier sometimes, use “Service Academy Forums USNA Naval Academy prior enlisted applicant” in a Google search string.

This is a very supportive community. We are rooting for you.

Oh - at some point you will probably be sitting down with officers in your COC. Be clear on your reasons for seeking an officer commission, for choosing USNA as your path, without burning bridges. Choose your words carefully! When I was on AD I sat on many a command board for enlisted seeking a path to a commission. One answered “because I want to make more money” to the “why” question. I did not positively endorse that application. When it comes time for that, read about the USNA mission, the officer warfare communities open to you and the missions/career paths, and prepare to express how you feel that better suits your goals, but you would still be honored to serve as an AC and have great respect for the officer-enlisted partnership in mission execution.

But first, tackle the process and get some momentum going. Impress your COC with the depth of your legwork while still shining in your schoolhouse.

 

[OldRetSWO]

Is there any hope in seeking an audience with the CO with a meritorious mast?

This is not a meritorious mast situation - if it was, they would be calling you in to give you a commendation or award. This is a situation for a "Request Mast". Most likely you will need to put in a special request chit to meet with the CO

 

[Old Navy BGO]

My problem is that, I may not have enough time to impress my next command and sub-sequentially earn the SECNAV and receive an endorsement by the CO.

It is oft said here that the application process is a marathon, not a sprint. If you went into the Navy right after HS, and are still in A school, I'm guessing you are 18-19 years old, maybe 20. You are right, its difficult to get recognized as an outstanding sailor while in the training pipeline so Admission this year could be difficult.

By all means, if you have already started the process, it can't hurt to try ...100% of those that don't apply don't get in, -- do your due diligence, request Mast, etc. and complete the application. That said,, if you don't get in, get to your first fleet command and be the best AC you can be. Don't necessarily let everyone know that you are gunning for USNA right away, but rather make a name for yourself as a highly motivated leader among your peers. (Also heed CAPT MJ's comments about the qualification issues, i.e no conduct issues !). Once you've made a name for yourself, the application process will be a lot easier, and you will find your COC going to bat for you.

Good luck !

 

[UHBlackhawk]

I have only one thing to add to the above and it's a touchy subject.
You may encounter COC's or parts of COC's that are not supportive of a Service Academy application. I've seen mid-level NCO's attempt to block people with appointments from attending I/R Day. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.
If something like this does happen tread lightly and I would recommend PMing some of the people above who gave you very good advice on how to proceed in such a case. In my DD's case at USMA, it took very senior E-9's getting involved to break the "logjam" and get her to R-Day on time.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

I have only one thing to add to the above and it's a touchy subject.
You may encounter COC's or parts of COC's that are not supportive of a Service Academy application. I've seen mid-level NCO's attempt to block people with appointments from attending I/R Day. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

This is a good comment, and it really applies to those applying from NROTC or the Fleet. A true leader should be supportive of those that are trying to advance themselves, but there are those who may look at the applications as "this person thinks he /she is too good for us...". My recommendation has always been to keep your ambitions low key until you have established your record as a hard charger, front runner, and the COC will be supportive. The problems usually (not always) arise when the person shows up and immediately makes it known that the current command (whether it be NROTC or Fleet) is just a stepping stone.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

This is a good comment, and it really applies to those applying from NROTC or the Fleet. A true leader should be supportive of those that are trying to advance themselves, but there are those who may look at the applications as "this person thinks he /she is too good for us...". My recommendation has always been to keep your ambitions low key until you have established your record as a hard charger, front runner, and the COC will be supportive. The problems usually (not always) arise when the person shows up and immediately makes it known that the current command (whether it be NROTC or Fleet) is just a stepping stone.

Very good advice on keeping it low key. In my DD's case, she kept it very quiet. The unit was deploying and she was terrified she would be left behind if word got out. Obviously her CO knew.
At some point in the deployment, she had to be sent back early for R-Day. That is where her real problems started, dealing with a rear detachment command. Her COC had set up some schools for her to do along with her out processing as an "atta boy". The rear detachment cancelled those schools and wouldn't let her go to her outprocessing, using her for details instead. It took the SA CSM contacting her division CSM to get the "logjam" cleared. They had her outprocessed in one day after that. Even then she had to sell back most of her leave as she showed up the Friday prior to R-Day.
But, as with any experience you survive, I don't think it was all bad. It gave her an insight into what enlisted servicemembers might encounter. She actually kept a little notebook of leadership examples while she was enlisted. Usually little things, good and bad such as "randomly ask a soldier to show you their sensitive items". The "good" pages far outnumber the "bad" pages.
Again, I'm emphatically agreeing with the advice. My point to the OP isn't to discourage you. If you do encounter issues, keep your chin up. Do your job as a sailor, no matter how menial the task you might be assigned. There are lessons to be learned. And PM some of the... "more distinguished" sailors who advised you above on how to deal with such issues if they arise.

 

[AROTC-dad]

She actually kept a little notebook of leadership examples while she was enlisted. Usually little things, good and bad such as "randomly ask a soldier to show you their sensitive items". The "good" pages far outnumber the "bad" pages.

This is a wonderful practice to keep throughout life; in or out of the military.

 

[elorodelmar4]

Thank you for your responses. I am currently 21, and this is my only opportunity to apply due to my age. I wanted to PM some of the people above, but I'm new to this and the forum won't let me PM anyone yet. (I'm going to try posting new threads in order to qualify). I don't know if someone can PM me and then I can RESPOND to the PM or not, but I really need help with this. Some of this is a little touchy, and I can't post everything, but these are my current questions.
1. How do I obtain a duty under instruction evaluation?
2. I am not exactly clear on how the chain of command works. I know that I fill out the application, and I pass it up the COC. Do the people in the COC actually do anything with it, or do they just pass it along to the next person? Can anyone legitimately stop it as it goes along the COC up to the CO, or are they required to keep sending it until it gets to the CO?

Thank you so much for your help. This is my last opportunity to apply for SECNAV, and if I am allowed to apply, it would be a shame for me not to be allowed to do so.

 

[Capt MJ]

Your chain of command should be able to answer those questions, but understand you may be in a schoolhouse, and it’s hard to access COC. In general:

- If you are in a schoolhouse as a student, you receive a NOB (not observed) duty under instruction evaluation that documents your time at the school, your PRT mark, a few key items, but mostly whether you are performing satisfactorily. Not a lot of write-up except a boilerplate sentence or two. Those are done at the normal time for your paygrade (annual) and at detachment/completion of the course. Theoretically, you have an unbroken series of evals from the day you joined, accounting for all dates, with types of duty being observed and not observed (typical for school duty as a student). If you have been at the school at least a year, you should have one in your personnel file. Any eval produced for outside the annual cycle or the usual reasons (detachment, promotion, etc.) is called a special eval. I don’t know what’s required by your application from enlisted status. If you need a special eval, documenting additional stuff not in the regular NOB eval, that’s a COC request. The E1-E3 annual eval cycle date is 1 July, so if you are one of those, you should have one. Here’s the calendar:

2023 Navy FITREP and Evaluation Calendar - FITREP & Eval Writing Guide

There are three things for sure for those in the Navy: Death, Taxes, & forgetting when your FITREP/EVAL is due. Well forget no more....

www.navyfitrep.com

- Your application should be forwarded up the COC and out of the command. When it leaves the command, it will have the command’s endorsement, which can be enthusiastic, lukewarm or negative. It could be:
Forwarded, not recommending approval. (may or may not give reasons, but conduct, performance or PRT issues could be mentioned)
Forwarded, recommending approval. (if it’s just this, this is the lukewarm message, and barely positive)
Forwarded, with my strongest personal recommendation for an appointment to USNA. Seaman Finarkle is at the top of his/her class, a natural leader who will fit well into the officer corps. Etc.

Somewhere along this path, you will probably meet the CO, XO, Training of Admin officer, or other senior leadership for an interview 1:1 or in a panel setting.


Be as squared away as you can be in every aspect of your performance. Be clear on your reasons for wanting to serve as an officer without disrespecting enlisted service. Do your homework on USNA’s mission and the officer career paths available.

Make friends with the LPO or civilians in the admin office. They know how admin works for things moving up the COC.

Enlisted personnel usually attend NAPS, which means for you, you cannot be 23 as of 1 July, 2021, the summer you would enter USNA. I am assuming you know that, but just noting here for others who read these forums.

Everything above is my best guess based on past experience and general knowledge.

Don’t forget there is a Navy Chief or Senior Chief at USNA Admissions who is the admissions counselor for enlisted applicants. You can call the general Admissions number to ask for that person or their email. You may have a career counselor at your command who can also help.