Experimented with Marijuana after Appointment (What Will Happen?)

TheGrandInquisitor said:
'didn't make a lot of sense.' <--- that right there is a quote because i put quotations directly around something that you stated. Hornet didn't use quotations properly becuase I never actually said "harsh opinions" directly. I was just being a grammar nazi because i couldn't think of a better comeback :yllol:

And don't worry. Hornet will never command me.
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Might want to back off a bit with the corrections, won't do you well with your choice in educational institutions. Sometimes there isn't a need for a better comeback.

Guess you never heard of Joint Operations and training, never say never.
 
+1 JCleppe.

In the rated world that kind of criticism by Inquisitor during a debrief by a young flier might be answered with a coloring book thrown at them.
~~~ IOWS shut up and color, because you are still the young one with no experience, and it is best to learn.

JMPO, but what was interesting to me is that Inquisitor cared more about grammar than the message.

One other thing to think about. SA is important in the AF, since the Inquisitor is going Navy, maybe it is different in that branch.

Hornet has been here for years. This is a guy when at the AFA started a tradition for SAF posters appointed because he cared. He and a couple other AFA cadets would go out to dinner with the families here when they did their AFA visit. They were there to answer questions and place them at ease in a casual setting, such as the local Red Robin. He did this several times a year for year. They gave up their Saturday nights to help their brethren.
~~~ I have not read of this tradition occurring since he commissioned.

To me that is sign of what the AFA values more than grammar since it is a sign of a leader, taking care of their men.

I also laugh at the grammar issue and your low level of SA. A few clicks and you will see Hornet was selected by RAND for his PhD right out of the AFA. I guess it was not only admissions that was filled with so many well educated people, but also the professors and the RAND selection committee too when they offered this assignment to him. FWIW, they only offer one.

Mike,

I can't believe you decided Boston Creme Pie is better than Lemon. I am not a pie person, give me Creme Brulee anyway of the week, but if I have to go pie it is def. Key lime.:thumb:
 
I must be on the other end of the spectrum. Not only have a I seen people make mistakes over four years at an academy, I've reported them for doing so (honor cases) and they were recommended for disenrollment.

Does breaking a serious rule make someone a bad, evil person? Generally, no.

Does breaking a serious rule mean they should be held accountable? Absolutely 100% of the time.

What this kid did was stupid. It wasn't an innocent mistake. And, in my mind, his spot can be better used by someone with better judgement. We can't ask people to change their pasts, but we can hold them accountable for their current conduct. When they slip up in a serious way….. let them burn.
 
Isn't learning from a mistake enough? Must they "burn" as well to satisfy you?

Not really into that grace, mercy or compassion stuff are you?

LineInTheSand said:
I must be on the other end of the spectrum. Not only have a I seen people make mistakes over four years at an academy, I've reported them for doing so (honor cases) and they were recommended for disenrollment.

Does breaking a serious rule make someone a bad, evil person? Generally, no.

Does breaking a serious rule mean they should be held accountable? Absolutely 100% of the time.

What this kid did was stupid. It wasn't an innocent mistake. And, in my mind, his spot can be better used by someone with better judgement. We can't ask people to change their pasts, but we can hold them accountable for their current conduct. When they slip up in a serious way….. let them burn.
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IMHO, it comes down to two things:

1) Should he lie and not mention it?

2) Should he mention it and risk being expelled?

We have no control over the outcome of #2, that would be up to USAFA. Do we think he should mention it?
 
Tigger said:
Isn't learning from a mistake enough? Must they "burn" as well to satisfy you?

Not really into that grace, mercy or compassion stuff are you?
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Grace and mercy are between him and God, not him and the Air Force.

Learning from a mistake isn't the same as being excused from a mistake. The lesson is, other opportunities can be wasted because of a poor decision, not that everyone has second chances to take idiotic actions.
 
Tigger said:
Isn't learning from a mistake enough? Must they "burn" as well to satisfy you?

Not really into that grace, mercy or compassion stuff are you?
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How do you "learn from a mistake" if you don't pay the consequences from those actions? I'm sorry but bluntly- anyone this short sighted and foolish has no call on my sympathy. This wasn't a freak accident, there was no coercion to do this, nor are there unforseen consequences to these actions (the OP knows this- whcih is why they posted to begin with) & no unrealistic understandings of the conditions upon which they were entering. The OP knew full well the consequences of his actions- and did them anyway- and that's the person that you wish to show compassion and mercy to and tell them "it's ok- you just forget aout it head off to one of the most highly sought after educational opportunities in the world- because I think you really will be a great officer"? I have a better idea- think of this as an opportunity for a more deserving person to go to USAFA and save your compassion for those who rate it- which does not include this person who is willing to throw it all away in order to "experiment" with what they were told up front they can not do.
 
So humans don't extend grace, mercy and compassion to one another? I respectfully disagree with that position. I doubt that I would still be married or that my children would have survived childhood if a lot of grace, mercy and compassion weren't swirling around this house!

And no one in your book gets a second chance? Really? That's pretty sad.

LineInTheSand said:
Grace and mercy are between him and God, not him and the Air Force.

Learning from a mistake isn't the same as being excused from a mistake. The lesson is, other opportunities can be wasted because of a poor decision, not that everyone has second chances to take idiotic actions.
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I never said that a person should be less than honest about what they have done and face the consequences for their decisions. I just think that we can support individuals, especially young people, while they are facing their consequences.

I'm not sure that convincing a person they are a complete and utter moral failure over a poor choice is the best way to help them learn from their choices. Shame (feeling bad about who you ARE) rarely leads to growth while guilt (feeling bad about what you DID) can often lead to insight, growth and a commitment to change.



bruno said:
How do you "learn from a mistake" if you don't pay the consequences from those actions? I'm sorry but bluntly- anyone this short sighted and foolish has no call on my sympathy. This wasn't a freak accident, there was no coercion to do this, nor are there unforseen consequences to these actions (the OP knows this- whcih is why they posted to begin with) & no unrealistic understandings of the conditions upon which they were entering. The OP knew full well the consequences of his actions- and did them anyway- and that's the person that you wish to show compassion and mercy to and tell them "it's ok- you just forget aout it head off to one of the most highly sought after educational opportunities in the world- because I think you really will be a great officer"? I have a better idea- think of this as an opportunity for a more deserving person to go to USAFA and save your compassion for those who rate it- which does not include this person who is willing to throw it all away in order to "experiment" with what they were told up front they can not do.
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It was a huge screw up very early in the process and says a lot about his character. I agree with the earlier post that thinks it was intentional self-sabotage.
 
Tigger said:
So humans don't extend grace, mercy and compassion to one another? I respectfully disagree with that position. I doubt that I would still be married or that my children would have survived childhood if a lot of grace, mercy and compassion weren't swirling around this house!

And no one in your book gets a second chance? Really? That's pretty sad.
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Certainly, as an individual, I have the ability to forgive (and I believe I should). I also shouldn't judge (but I often do).

That said, my book isn't the book of the U.S. Air Force. The kid can get a "I forgive your actions" from me, but that doesn't mean I think the Air Force should ALSO forgive him.

We are accountable for our actions. Sure, he may not end up being in the Air Force, but he'll be successful with the other 99.9% of the population that didn't serve. Maybe that's the mercy.... that he can still have a successful life outside of the service.

But, in my opinion, it's no place for him. He's made that clear with his recent actions, while we knew what was at stake. We have mothers here asking if their kids should even play sports (they should) lest they get injured, and then you have this kid, toking it up, knowing what could happen. That's a pretty bad sign, if you ask me.

Again, there are PLENTY of opportunities out there....
 
Admissions is very much about "leading indicators" for success. Defying one of the more serious requirements of military service (not doing illegal drugs) is a pretty poor leading indicator for success.
 
I have overstepped my boundaries and I do apologize if I offended you. But I will rephrase it. Yes, even I the highschooler, am well aware that cadets/midshipmen at service academies are not perfect. However, I was saying that this OP did something that is not only illegal in most states, but was something strictly prohibited by the AFA. You say I should back off on my corrections because I'm going to a place where I shouldn't be correcting people 247 (which i understand), but what about the OP? You aren't worried that he/she is going to go to AFA and break more rules? and do things he/she is strictly told not to do?

The only reason I said that the OP doesn't deserve it anymore is because there are candidates out there who are just as qualified or slightly less qualified than this OP, who wouldn't have made the decision that the OP did, given the opportunity to "smoke a joint".

I mean, are the points that I am bringing up completely wrong? If so, please (in all honesty) correct me. but if not, I would appreciate it if you didn't flame on me for simply expressing my opinions.
 
Let's take a line from that Boston song and "cool the engines". IMHO, this debate has run its course, but hey, that's just me.

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Plus the OP is probably trolling.

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I agree. I think the horse is dead.

There is nothing more to say that would influence the OP (he he/she is even reading this), and I believe the thread should make anyone think twice before making a stupid mistake like this.
 
TheGrandInquisitor said:
I have overstepped my boundaries and I do apologize if I offended you. But I will rephrase it. Yes, even I the highschooler, am well aware that cadets/midshipmen at service academies are not perfect. However, I was saying that this OP did something that is not only illegal in most states, but was something strictly prohibited by the AFA. You say I should back off on my corrections because I'm going to a place where I shouldn't be correcting people 247 (which i understand), but what about the OP? You aren't worried that he/she is going to go to AFA and break more rules? and do things he/she is strictly told not to do?

The only reason I said that the OP doesn't deserve it anymore is because there are candidates out there who are just as qualified or slightly less qualified than this OP, who wouldn't have made the decision that the OP did, given the opportunity to "smoke a joint".

I mean, are the points that I am bringing up completely wrong? If so, please (in all honesty) correct me. but if not, I would appreciate it if you didn't flame on me for simply expressing my opinions.
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Your comment about the OP was never the issue.

Your response to the AF Officer was a bit much.

I agree, I think the worms have cleaned the bones of this horse, was fun to read though.
 
Jcleppe said:
Your comment about the OP was never the issue.
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It was the issue. After my original post about the OP, the AF Officer decided to call me a judgmental high schooler with harsh opinions. Randomly coming at me like that out of the blue, I instinctively responded to defend myself and didn't really think it through, about what I was saying and who I was saying it to. I will be more cautious as to think before I speak in the future. So lesson learned.
 
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