midshipmen returning!

kpmom2013

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Apr 14, 2009
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First-class Mids first in order to prepare for license exams. Then class of 2023 B splitters so they can take their SOLAS class and exam before going out to sea. Then INSOC staff. Then Class of 2024 Plebe Candidates. Then the rest of the Regiment. Fingers crossed that all goes well.
 

BeauGeste

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Feb 7, 2020
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13
First-class Mids first in order to prepare for license exams. Then class of 2023 B splitters so they can take their SOLAS class and exam before going out to sea. Then INSOC staff. Then Class of 2024 Plebe Candidates. Then the rest of the Regiment. Fingers crossed that all goes well.
As of now, then, does the July 10 INDOC date remain in place for 2024 Plebe Candidates?

Just me sounding off, but we're dealing with a remarkably fit and healthy group of 17-21 year olds for whom the risk of ill effects (i.e., detectible symptoms) from the Covid virus has now been seen to be basically zero; it happens, but so infrequently that it is statistically meaningless. The vast majority of the Academy's benefit arises from the intense, in-person community life. So that with "remote learning," one is tempted to ask: What's the point?
 

kpmom2013

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They have not yet announced specific dates, but my guess would be yes. Not known if parents will be allowed on campus, but my guess would be no. I definitely see your point, but many Mids are returning from sea year where they have traveled the world and picked up all kinds of diseases. My DD was on a ship where someone had to be medevaced with a serious case of Covid 19. Plus we are dealing with decision-makers in Washington D.C. and New York City where everyone is crazy.
 

Mr2020

U.S. Merchant Marine Academy '19
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
295
we're dealing with a remarkably fit and healthy group of 17-21 year olds for whom the risk of ill effects (i.e., detectible symptoms) from the Covid virus has now been seen to be basically zero; it happens, but so infrequently that it is statistically meaningless.
very naive thing to say. Colds, flu, viruses fly around the barracks like wildfire. I remember times when almost everyone on the floor was sick. Common showers and bathrooms. NY k-12 and state colleges are not opening back up for the rest of the academic year. the admin are really risking their jobs by trying to re-open the school in any capacity while every other institution in the area is closed. And, all it takes is one person to get sick. It'll be clear the administration was negligent and there will be clear accountability all the way up to the maritime administrator. If this goes bad it'll be very easy to point to what NY state is doing and the admin will be in the wrong 100%.
 

BrightSide

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Feb 14, 2020
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16
I wouldn't say naive, I would say practical.
As you said, illnesses fly around the barracks. It's an anticipated part of military life, the medical staff is well trained, and the data shows that this age group is less vulnerable. Besides, the military isn't set up to opt out of functioning.
The leadership of our military makes decisions with different considerations than civilian operations. They are (hopefully) not cowed by a litigious society. They are dealing with independent adults who take necessary, calculated risks to protect our society not small children who go back to civilan homes every night and might take a virus home to grandma. They base their decisions on data and facts, balancing the weight of anecdotal evidence and the occasional exception. So, I would expect, they have more to weigh in than just what everyone else is doing.
That said, I agree with your sentiment that the admin is in a difficult position. I am trusting in their wisdom.
 

Mr2020

U.S. Merchant Marine Academy '19
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Messages
295
I wouldn't say naive, I would say practical.
Nope, very naive. Oh, they're fit and healthy, they'll all be fine. All it takes is one person to react badly. No other college in NY State is open right now. The secretary of DOT is a very savvy person, and she will throw these guys under the bus in a second to preserve her political capital. I hope it happens.
The leadership of our military makes decisions with different considerations than civilian operations. They are (hopefully) not cowed by a litigious society. They are dealing with independent adults who take necessary, calculated risks to protect our society not small children who go back to civilan homes every night and might take a virus home to grandma.
Litigation has nothing to do with this. First of all KP is a civilian school and every person is a civilian except Naval Science who didn't make this decision. Making an unsafe, negligent decision that ends up hurting people has consequences whether you're in the military or a civilian.
 

azmilmom

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Nov 11, 2016
Messages
481
Nope, very naive. Oh, they're fit and healthy, they'll all be fine. All it takes is one person to react badly. No other college in NY State is open right now. The secretary of DOT is a very savvy person, and she will throw these guys under the bus in a second to preserve her political capital. I hope it happens.

Litigation has nothing to do with this. First of all KP is a civilian school and every person is a civilian except Naval Science who didn't make this decision. Making an unsafe, negligent decision that ends up hurting people has consequences whether you're in the military or a civilian.
Wow, you "hope it happens"? What an appalling thing to hope for...
 

flieger83

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**** SPEAKING AS A MEMBER, NOT AS A MODERATOR****

Okay...I felt I had to put that disclaimer here. I've been reading this short thread and it's a bit disconcerting to me. Someone very dear to me
graduated from KP in 2018 and I try to imagine my feelings if this had occurred then. It's a bit discomforting. Still, this person is extremely healthy,
is currently serving in the military, and is going about normal duties daily. And that's as it should be.

The comments above are a bit...melodramatic and potentially highly inflammatory and I wanted to comment before it possibly rises to the level that the moderator hat has to be put back on. So let's take it point by point to potentially defuse a simmering pot.

First, I don't believe Mr2020 is hoping for COVID-19 illnesses and tragedy to strike midshipmen at the USMMA. I think his personal comment is that "IF" something were to happen, he'd be happy to see the current leadership "thrown under the bus" by Secretary Chao. It may be that he simply doesn't like the current leadership, I don't know, but I don't think his comment was directed toward the midshipmen. He is entitled to his opinion, as are we all.

Second, the words "naive" and "negligent" are being tossed about here in an accusatory fashion and I wonder if everyone truly knows what they mean? Naive implies "showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment." Negligence implies "failing to take proper care in doing something." Okay...let's look at both. A determined plan of action, formulated by a knowledgeable team, with expert advice from the proper authorities, can hardly be described as either naive or negligent. The Superintendant of the academy, Admiral Buono, in consultation with medical experts, maritime authorities, and others, has come up with a plan to return the regiment of midshipmen in stages. Stage one, he said in a video, is to return the class of 2020 to the academy to take their USCG licensing exams and then to graduate and move on to their next challenge. Stage two will be the return of the class of 2023 "B" splits to take their SOLAS training so they can get their MM credentials and head out to sea again. Stage three is Indoc for 2024. And Stage four is the start of first trimester classes on July 27th.

Now, nowhere in there did I see or hear a negligent plan, naivete in logic or thought, or otherwise. So...unless someone of you is a member of Admiral Buono's staff and is directly knowledgeable about this plan and its creation, the expertise that was sought and obtained, and the overall plan, I think anything said regarding "naivete or negligence" is simply an opinion. And opinions, especially when addressed with harsh words, can cause problems in a forum situation.

How about we follow what Admiral Buono said in his video? We watch as the class of 2020 returns and graduates and the members move on to their next fields of endeavor. And we rejoice with them!! I know how amazing it was at KP when I was there in 2018 for graduation; it was incredible. I am saddened that 2020 won't have that type of celebration. And, as I'm an academy graduate but not a KP grad, if there's one tradition I hope that someday they can return to the academy to do...it's the mad dash, after their final dismissal, to the pool and the large group jump and splash! I loved that!

Best wishes to all!

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 

1842

Member
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Jan 23, 2017
Messages
141
There is a lot of hysteria and paranoia right now but there is a good plan in place to return midshipmen and graduate the senior class.

The US Naval Academy has already brought back their senior class in preparation for graduation. The world did not end.



Also, West Point which is a military college located in NY is going to hold a graduation for their seniors.

 
Last edited:

golfindad

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Joined
Apr 13, 2016
Messages
356
The USNA plan is not similar to USMMA. USMMA is more similar to USAFA than anything. USNA is bringing the graduating class in small groups over 10 days for basically day visits, to commission, clean out their rooms and do paperwork. They are not there for an extended time period.

USMMA will have mids back for 2 weeks in isolation. boxed meals delivered to their rooms. no groups visiting. Any breaking of the rules, they are sent home without boards and automatically deferred. In other words, they are in solitary confinement for at least 2 weeks, with limited food and no social interaction. The perfect atmosphere to study for license. And, no one here even mentions that, should any of the mids be hospitalized due to covid, they are barred from commissioning.

USMMA has not given a definitive return date yet. May 31 and June 1 have been mentioned but not confirmed. USMMA is sending PPE to the mids to wear to be safe to come back to school. There was talk of USMMA arranging for transportation from the airports etc so that the mids risk less exposure.

2 weeks in solitary confinement while preparing for license with no freedom of movement, limited food, etc., is ripe for mental health issues--which is exactly what happened at USAFA.
 

agarb

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Apr 29, 2020
Messages
10
golfindad, interesting post.

Anybody know if they plan to isolate incoming 2024 plebes for two weeks?
 

GatorAud

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Oct 30, 2018
Messages
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**** SPEAKING AS A MEMBER, NOT AS A MODERATOR****

Okay...I felt I had to put that disclaimer here. I've been reading this short thread and it's a bit disconcerting to me. Someone very dear to me
graduated from KP in 2018 and I try to imagine my feelings if this had occurred then. It's a bit discomforting. Still, this person is extremely healthy,
is currently serving in the military, and is going about normal duties daily. And that's as it should be.

The comments above are a bit...melodramatic and potentially highly inflammatory and I wanted to comment before it possibly rises to the level that the moderator hat has to be put back on. So let's take it point by point to potentially defuse a simmering pot.

First, I don't believe Mr2020 is hoping for COVID-19 illnesses and tragedy to strike midshipmen at the USMMA. I think his personal comment is that "IF" something were to happen, he'd be happy to see the current leadership "thrown under the bus" by Secretary Chao. It may be that he simply doesn't like the current leadership, I don't know, but I don't think his comment was directed toward the midshipmen. He is entitled to his opinion, as are we all.

Second, the words "naive" and "negligent" are being tossed about here in an accusatory fashion and I wonder if everyone truly knows what they mean? Naive implies "showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment." Negligence implies "failing to take proper care in doing something." Okay...let's look at both. A determined plan of action, formulated by a knowledgeable team, with expert advice from the proper authorities, can hardly be described as either naive or negligent. The Superintendant of the academy, Admiral Buono, in consultation with medical experts, maritime authorities, and others, has come up with a plan to return the regiment of midshipmen in stages. Stage one, he said in a video, is to return the class of 2020 to the academy to take their USCG licensing exams and then to graduate and move on to their next challenge. Stage two will be the return of the class of 2023 "B" splits to take their SOLAS training so they can get their MM credentials and head out to sea again. Stage three is Indoc for 2024. And Stage four is the start of first trimester classes on July 27th.

Now, nowhere in there did I see or hear a negligent plan, naivete in logic or thought, or otherwise. So...unless someone of you is a member of Admiral Buono's staff and is directly knowledgeable about this plan and its creation, the expertise that was sought and obtained, and the overall plan, I think anything said regarding "naivete or negligence" is simply an opinion. And opinions, especially when addressed with harsh words, can cause problems in a forum situation.

How about we follow what Admiral Buono said in his video? We watch as the class of 2020 returns and graduates and the members move on to their next fields of endeavor. And we rejoice with them!! I know how amazing it was at KP when I was there in 2018 for graduation; it was incredible. I am saddened that 2020 won't have that type of celebration. And, as I'm an academy graduate but not a KP grad, if there's one tradition I hope that someday they can return to the academy to do...it's the mad dash, after their final dismissal, to the pool and the large group jump and splash! I loved that!

Best wishes to all!

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
Well said Steve. I have a 2023 B split Mid and am excited for her to return to take the SOLAS and go out to sea. I'm a first responder and understand firsthand the risks of COVID. That said, I fully support the administrations plan for return. It was well thought out and I truly believe the well being of staff and Mids IS most important to the administration.
 

golfindad

Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2016
Messages
356
golfindad, interesting post.

Anybody know if they plan to isolate incoming 2024 plebes for two weeks?
There is a plan in a book---it is held up on the video----but it has not been released. i think 2020 is the guinea pig, with 23B following as secondary guinea pigs. :) I haven't heard anything about plebe conditions.
 

golfindad

Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2016
Messages
356
dates seem to be changing; possibly May 30/31 for 2020 but nothing formally sent yet
 

1842

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2017
Messages
141
When our son arrived at his last ship, he had to follow a COVID plan for Maersk.

Similar requirements for PPE while traveling to join the ship, quarantined meals, separated from crew for 2 weeks, and requirement to wear a facemask while working. Zero problems with illness on the ship. No port visits, just work.
 
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