National Guard and ROTC

Montgomery07

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Sorry if these questions seem silly, but our family is new to the military world and some of the information we’ve received has been confusing and at times conflicting, so I was hoping the forum could help simplify the info and break it down into terms I understand. :)

My son is currently a senior at a military hs and is exploring ROTC and the National Guard as both a means to pay for out-of-state college and a way to maintain some of the structure he’s thrived on at his current school. He’s been told that if he gets awarded a 4 year ROTC scholarship (he’s up for the first board review next month) and then does the NG SMP, it would cover 100% of school (tuition, room, board and books). Our understanding is it would be an 8 year commitment in the NG and no AD, which is what he prefers so he can pursue a civilian career.

Is this accurate? When would he have to sign up for the NG to get the appropriate benefits? What happens if he is awarded the scholarship but does not get into the original state schools he selected? Anything else important we should be aware of? Thanks!
 

AJC

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He can still go NG on a national scholarship.
The scholarship cover tuition or room and board.
Some schools provide room and board scholarships to ROTC scholarship holders.
My son is at Norwich and the only thing he pays for is his parking pass.
 

SunnyCal

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Your information is mostly accurate. 8 years of weekend warrior stuff. If your son is awarded the Scholarship and is not accepted into any of the 7 colleges/universities on his Army ROTC Scholarship application, he cannot use the Scholarship. The Scholarship covers either full tuition and fees OR $10,000 toward R&B. A small percentage of college/universities offer some kind of R&B assistance, including free R&B for 4 years.

The kind of Scholarship you describe is the Minuteman Scholarship. Personally, I would lean toward the Reserve (federal) and not the Guard (state). If the state has budget issues, they can defund the ROTC program and he can lose his Scholarship.

https://www.usar.army.mil/Portals/9...paign Flowchart.pdf?ver=2019-02-14-155703-120
https://www.usar.army.mil/MinutemanCampaign/
https://www.usar.army.mil/Portals/9...ip Trifold 2018.pdf?ver=2018-09-06-115942-433
https://www.military.com/daily-news...uition-funding-rotc-scholarship-students.html
 

SunnyCal

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Also, it sounds like you are mixing/confusing the National Scholarship and the Minuteman Scholarship. The National Scholarship (the first board is next month) does not include the SMP and the vast majority go straight to active duty.
 

rjb18

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If he wants to do NG in college he should look into the Simultaneous Membership Program Scholarship (SMP).
 

kinnem

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If he wants to do NG in college he should look into the Simultaneous Membership Program Scholarship (SMP).
Uhhhhh... isn't that what he said in his first post?
 

Tbpxece

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Your information is mostly accurate. 8 years of weekend warrior stuff. If your son is awarded the Scholarship and is not accepted into any of the 7 colleges/universities on his Army ROTC Scholarship application, he cannot use the Scholarship. The Scholarship covers either full tuition and fees OR $10,000 toward R&B. A small percentage of college/universities offer some kind of R&B assistance, including free R&B for 4 years.

The kind of Scholarship you describe is the Minuteman Scholarship. Personally, I would lean toward the Reserve (federal) and not the Guard (state). If the state has budget issues, they can defund the ROTC program and he can lose his Scholarship.

https://www.usar.army.mil/Portals/98/Documents/Minuteman Campaign/Minuteman Campaign Flowchart.pdf?ver=2019-02-14-155703-120
https://www.usar.army.mil/MinutemanCampaign/
https://www.usar.army.mil/Portals/98/Documents/resources_docs/ROTC Minuteman Scholarship Trifold 2018.pdf?ver=2018-09-06-115942-433
https://www.military.com/daily-news...uition-funding-rotc-scholarship-students.html
It appears you are a HS senior, correct? And you are not currently serving in the Army in any capacity?

If that is the case, I'd recommend you disclose those facts before issuing recommendations like that.

"8 years of weekend warrior stuff" has not been the case in the Reserve Component since 9/11. Also, states tend to offer quite a bit more TA to their Guardsmen than does USAR.

It's easy to find articles on the internet, but please take care not to communicate expertise where there appears to be none.
 

SunnyCal

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It appears you are a HS senior, correct? And you are not currently serving in the Army in any capacity?

If that is the case, I'd recommend you disclose those facts before issuing recommendations like that.

"8 years of weekend warrior stuff" has not been the case in the Reserve Component since 9/11. Also, states tend to offer quite a bit more TA to their Guardsmen than does USAR.

It's easy to find articles on the internet, but please take care not to communicate expertise where there appears to be none.

https://www.cadetcommand.army.mil/reserve.aspx

According to the above link, the Minuteman Scholarship states "In return for these scholarship benefits, a Minuteman Cadet will serve as a Commissioned Officer in either the ARNG or USAR in a drilling status for 8 years after Graduation." In layman terms, 8 years of weekend warrior stuff.

As for the other thread you complained about me, the word "enlist" means to enroll or be enrolled in the armed services.

I think you need to relax on these threads and not get so bent out of shape concerning simple semantics. If you feel comfortable, how about you disclose all of your military credentials on any thread you respond to because you have no idea of my credentials or who I spoke to before I make recommendations/suggestions. But since you seem interested, I typically speak to my father before posting since he is prior Air Force, prior Air Guard and has a law degree.

Lastly, with almost 700 posts in less than a year, you may want to find a hobby.

Lastly,
 
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HawkeyeMom

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It appears you are a HS senior, correct? And you are not currently serving in the Army in any capacity?

If that is the case, I'd recommend you disclose those facts before issuing recommendations like that.

"8 years of weekend warrior stuff" has not been the case in the Reserve Component since 9/11. Also, states tend to offer quite a bit more TA to their Guardsmen than does USAR.

It's easy to find articles on the internet, but please take care not to communicate expertise where there appears to be none.

https://www.cadetcommand.army.mil/reserve.aspx

According to the above link, the Minuteman Scholarship states "In return for these scholarship benefits, a Minuteman Cadet will serve as a Commissioned Officer in either the ARNG or USAR in a drilling status for 8 years after Graduation." In layman terms, 8 years of weekend warrior stuff.

As for the other thread you complained about me, the word "enlist" means to enroll or be enrolled in the armed services.

I think you need to relax on these threads and not get so bent out of shape concerning simple semantics. If you feel comfortable, how about you disclose all of your military credentials on any thread you respond to because you have no idea of my credentials or who I spoke to before I make recommendations/suggestions. But since you seem interested, I typically speak to my father before posting since he is prior Air Force, prior Air Guard and has a law degree.

Lastly, with almost 700 posts in less than a year, you may want to find a hobby.

Lastly,


Well, I think one of the points the poster was trying to make was that since 9-11, the ops tempo for Guard, Reserve, and AD has been such that it can lead to burn-out. If one joins the Guard with the belief that their service will be limited to 1 weekend a month, and 2 weeks during the summer for 8 years (and whose sole motivation is to pay for college), he/she will be sadly disillusioned!

Full- disclosure: I was never AD, but am the wife of a retired AF service member and I lived through 24 years of deployments on the "other side." My husband served both AD and in the Air Guard, and I can attest to the fact that he served much more than just "week-end warrior stuff" during his time in the Guard. I'm sure one's experience varies with the career field. Our family survived and prospered (and I feel we were blessed to have the opportunity), but it wasn't without challenges.
 

HawkeyeMom

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Sorry if these questions seem silly, but our family is new to the military world and some of the information we’ve received has been confusing and at times conflicting, so I was hoping the forum could help simplify the info and break it down into terms I understand. :)

My son is currently a senior at a military hs and is exploring ROTC and the National Guard as both a means to pay for out-of-state college and a way to maintain some of the structure he’s thrived on at his current school. He’s been told that if he gets awarded a 4 year ROTC scholarship (he’s up for the first board review next month) and then does the NG SMP, it would cover 100% of school (tuition, room, board and books). Our understanding is it would be an 8 year commitment in the NG and no AD, which is what he prefers so he can pursue a civilian career.

Is this accurate? When would he have to sign up for the NG to get the appropriate benefits? What happens if he is awarded the scholarship but does not get into the original state schools he selected? Anything else important we should be aware of? Thanks!


No, your questions are not silly! We had a wonderful experience in the Air Guard! However, while the reg may say 8 years of NG service and no AD, that's not really reflective of real life; at least in our experience. Expect for his Guard unit to be activated for AD service. Multiple times, for months at a time. If his civilian career choice would not be compatible with that, I would look elsewhere for a different way to pay for college. While federal law protects the service member called up to AD, some employers are more understanding than others.
 

SunnyCal

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My father was in the Air Force National Guard for 6 years. He worked in payroll, the Air Force Community College and in contracting during those years. He was never activated. Besides his 1 weekend per month, he was only required to work 2 weeks during the summers. During 1 or 2 of those summers, he did work more than those 2 weeks, but only upon his request. At that time and that base, that was the norm for most weekend warriors from his perspective.
 

Tbpxece

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My father was in the Air Force National Guard for 6 years. He worked in payroll, the Air Force Community College and in contracting during those years. He was never activated. Besides his 1 weekend per month, he was only required to work 2 weeks during the summers. During 1 or 2 of those summers, he did work more than those 2 weeks, but only upon his request. At that time and that base, that was the norm for most weekend warriors from his perspective.
"Weekend Warrior" (particularly in the manner you are using it) is a common pejorative term used by mostly AC members towards RC members in an attempt to minimize or marginalize their role in the Total Force. Perhaps you did not understand that. Now you do. I ask that you not use it. It is incorrect and demeaning in the way you are using it.

Your father's RC experience is not representative of the current cohort of actively-serving RC members. Perhaps he served prior to OEF/OIF, but avoiding deployment post-9/11 is extremely unusual for any RC member that remained in the service past their first term. Furthermore, there are multiple statuses and mechanisms by which an RC member may be gained to full-time status-- not just Title 10 activation.

The position I speak from is as an active Air Force officer with many years in service- first enlisted and then commissioned- including working extensively with my RC counterparts in the Guard and Reserve. My presence on this site has been to aid and assist future servicemembers (and to some extent, their parents) within the capacity I am able to provide assistance. I have been open about all of the above facts numerous times throughout my posts.

This site serves to aid future military officers and their parents in navigating a process that is largely unfamiliar to them. Given the large amount of conflicting information and abject misinformation regarding military service on the Internet, semantics and correct terminology are very important. If you wind up receiving a commission as a military officer, you will find that to be a common refrain throughout your career-- something I suspect your father would confirm. Words have meanings, and those meanings matter. Hearsay and conjecture are both dangerous and can have direct, negative, and immediate impacts to the mission. Another skill taught in officer training is to only speak to those things for which you have the authority or knowledge to speak. Again, this is a critical trait of a successful military leader.

The information I corrected you on was incorrect information you communicated with an air of implied authority that you do not possess. You may feel that it was simply "semantics"; the reality is that it was not. You were simply incorrect in recommending things that were wrong or required clarification. The sloppy attempt at a personal attack was unwarranted and not conduct becoming of someone who aspires to be a military leader.

I hope you reconsider your approach to interactions with others-- particularly those who are currently in the service . If you receive a commission, you will find correction to be a frequent and vital tool to success as a young CGO. Quibbling, snark, and arrogance will result in a short and fruitless career.
 

SunnyCal

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Weekend Warrior

 

Capt MJ

Formerly Known As Attila The Hunnette
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@SunnyCal

May I suggest you change your avatar to something other than a photo, if that is your own image? If you look around, you’ll see this is an anonymous Internet forum, not a personal social media account where real names, photos and too much personal info is shared. This is for your own protection and to support free-flowing exchanges.

FWIW, I spent 26 years on AD and am still closely tied to AD, Reserve and Guard installations and units for business. It would not occur to me to use the term “weekend warrior.” Even before the last 20 years of non-stop conflict, I didn’t think it was a worthy or respectful term. I did hear Reserve folks use it among themselves on occasion, years ago, and often said to them “no, you’re not ‘just a weekend warrior.’” I know how hard I worked on AD, and here these folks had full-time jobs and spent weekends working, plus annual ATs and deployments, plus other work done during their “real lives” the more senior they got. I’ve rarely heard the term since then, given the lives lost and injuries sustained by activated Guard and Reserve on extended deployments.

Please thank your dad from me for his time in uniform and his contribution, no matter whether he was a door-kicker-in guy or admin type, it’s all the same team.


I was glad to see the .mil primary source you posted, for the Air Force, notes the shift in acceptable usage. It takes awhile for unofficial sources to catch up on changing terms.

Under Unacceptable Terms:
“Weekend Warrior - An obsolete term used to describe the minimal requirement for once a month training for Guard and Reserve members.”

I had to wean myself from saying “Naval Reserve Center” to “NOSC,” Naval Operational Support Center, some years ago, a term more reflective of its true nature.
 
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SunnyCal

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Thank you for your suggestion Capt MJ. It is my own image. My dad was both active and reserve. He still uses the term "weekend warrior" and is proud of it. He liked AD, but really enjoyed his time in the reserves.

I'll keep my image up. I highly doubt my image will interfere with the free flowing of exchanges. Disguising son with DS and DD for daughter seems pointless to me. My opinion.

Thank you for your long service.

<=== link and accompanying text removed ===>
 
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justdoit19

Proud parent of an ANG, USNA X2, and a MidSib
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My take as a Mom: I personally would not want my DD or DS referring to me, while posting advice to others. I especially wouldn’t want them doing it with their picture where things they said could be tied back to me. I also believe that there should be a disclaimer of “imo” unless an expert in your area...or part of “the club” and have earned the right to posting on subject matter.

@SunnyCal I thought you were perhaps a recruiter or something. I had no idea you are still in school. You post as an ‘expert’. But maybe you should disclaim that your observations (not experience) are from your dads experiences. Best wishes to you.

BTW, I don’t see any harassment from @Tbpxece. They have some good points to readers. Advice here is advice, one never knows who is giving it. Could be a seasoned veteran, or could be a high school student!
 

NavyHoops

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All, let’s get back on track to the OP’s original topic. Enough back and forth. There are no two experiences that are alike in the military, especially in the reserves. Seeing it second hand from a parent as child is not the same as living it. The Guard and Reserves have so many nuances and differences, ins and outs and everything else that it’s an interesting and times difficult path to follow. I had a young man who used to work for me and was a Guard member... he just came off 3 years active duty as a guard member. He has more deployed time than most of my buddies who have 20 years active duty time. Weekend warrior... many debates on that term. If I called him a weekend warrior, I would probably get punched and rightfully so. Just because it’s a term that is heard or seen on a website doesn’t mean it should be used. Honestly I don’t care what NYC is saying about some other topic, it’s not pertinent. You haven’t raised your right hand yet... slang terms and the rivalry stuff hasn’t been earned yet. Capt MJ can call me a crayon eater all day, but it hasn’t been earned by those still in the application process. Now back on topic.
 

Capt MJ

Formerly Known As Attila The Hunnette
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Ma’am, yes ma’am and a cheery aye-aye to Hoops for an excellent recalibratory post.
 
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