NROTC without commissioning

[vmifan]

Hello everyone.
I am new here. I am a senior in high school applying to VMI. I am interested in NROTC, but VMI webpage says that cadets who do not plan to commission will be enrolled in army ROTC. I want to do NROTC. I contacted VMI NROTC and they replied:

"Unfortunately we do not have the capacity to offer NROTC training past your sophomore year of college. You could participate in the first two years of NROTC, and perhaps even change your mind and stick around for the last two years, but if you’re not on a commissioning path by your junior year at VMI, you would have to complete your ROTC graduation requirements with the Army ROTC department."

Do you know why? Why is there only army ROTC for non commissioning cadets?

I want a civil career in STEM, possibly a PhD, but I still want the military experience. I want NROTC because my step dad is retired naval officer and I really like the navy, though not as a career.
Is there any NROTC program that would let me participate the four years without commissioning? Will they let me take all the classes as college electives? If not possible, why? Just curiosity.

Thank you for replies.

 

[GWU PNS (emeritus)]

Hello everyone.
I am new here. I am a senior in high school applying to VMI. I am interested in NROTC, but VMI webpage says that cadets who do not plan to commission will be enrolled in army ROTC. I want to do NROTC. I contacted VMI NROTC and they replied:

"Unfortunately we do not have the capacity to offer NROTC training past your sophomore year of college. You could participate in the first two years of NROTC, and perhaps even change your mind and stick around for the last two years, but if you’re not on a commissioning path by your junior year at VMI, you would have to complete your ROTC graduation requirements with the Army ROTC department."

Do you know why? Why is there only army ROTC for non commissioning cadets?

I want a civil career in STEM, possibly a PhD, but I still want the military experience. I want NROTC because my step dad is retired naval officer and I really like the navy, though not as a career.
Is there any NROTC program that would let me participate the four years without commissioning? Will they let me take all the classes as college electives? If not possible, why? Just curiosity.

Thank you for replies.

To make sure I understand your question, you want to take 4 years of Naval Science classes and fully participate as a Midshipman but you have no desire to be a commissioned officer in the Navy?

Now that I am done shaking my head, I would say it's really jist a matter of resources. As a student in Naval Science classes, you would take up some amount of an instructor's time not to mention wearing the uniforms eventually wears them out. All NROTC units give a person 2 years to be accepted on a scholarship program. After that they get dropped if they have not received a scholarship offer.

Depending on the university, you might be able to take Naval Science classes as electives but you likely won't get 8 electives to choose and still get your degree on time.

 

[glen]

“All NROTC units give a person 2 years to be accepted on a scholarship program. After that they get dropped if they have not received a scholarship offer.“

I recognize ROTC units now only have resources to train obligated midshipmen. But there Used to be a College Programmer option - for selected students to continue to the Advance Course without a scholarship at discretion of the PNS. Has this been dropped?

I know quite a few Naval Officers who completed the program without a scholarship. Some never were offered the scholarship, but allowed to stick with the program and commission. Would be a shame to not give the PNS the option to allow someone to continue

 

[kinnem]

“All NROTC units give a person 2 years to be accepted on a scholarship program. After that they get dropped if they have not received a scholarship offer.“

I recognize ROTC units now only have resources to train obligated midshipmen. But there Used to be a College Programmer option - for selected students to continue to the Advance Course without a scholarship at discretion of the PNS. Has this been dropped?

I know quite a few Naval Officers who completed the program without a scholarship. Some never were offered the scholarship, but allowed to stick with the program and commission. Would be a shame to not give the PNS the option to allow someone to continue

I believe anyone can take the Naval Science classes but after two years, unless on scholarship or advanced standing, they cannot participate in Lab or PT, where the real leadership and athletic experiences lay; nor can they wear the uniform. I assume the OP is referring to the stuff they can't due when he says he wants the "military experience". Frankly, I think someone who wants the "military experience" should do the 4 years and then the 5 years active duty and 3 years IRR. There is time for the civilian STEM career after turning 27 (approximate completion of AD experience) and the PhD. At least that's what I would do (and wish I had done).

 

[GWU PNS (emeritus)]

“All NROTC units give a person 2 years to be accepted on a scholarship program. After that they get dropped if they have not received a scholarship offer.“

I recognize ROTC units now only have resources to train obligated midshipmen. But there Used to be a College Programmer option - for selected students to continue to the Advance Course without a scholarship at discretion of the PNS. Has this been dropped?

I know quite a few Naval Officers who completed the program without a scholarship. Some never were offered the scholarship, but allowed to stick with the program and commission. Would be a shame to not give the PNS the option to allow someone to continue

I think what you are thinking of is now called "Advanced Standing". Mids get a stipend but no scholarship and they can decline the commission of they don't want it.

 

[JohnMcLane]

If you are just looking for a "military experience" without actually serving, it shouldn't be a big deal to do Army ROTC versus NROTC. The VMI experience would be the same regardless. And who knows you may really like it and want to give active duty a try or just National Guard/reserves.

Oh, and a family member in the Navy is great but no reason to limit yourself. I'm Army, my brother's Air Force, his kid's Navy, and my kid's Marines. It was the best fit for all of us.

 

[glen]

I think what you are thinking of is now called "Advanced Standing". Mids get a stipend but no scholarship and they can decline the commission of they don't want it.

Sorry to belabor this question, but do non-scholarship Advanced Standing midshipmen get the monthly stipend without signing a contract to commission? That seems lIke a great incentive - get paid the stipend for 18 months without an obligation. My understanding from the AROTC program is that if you are allowed to continue in the advanced program you only get the stipend once you sign the contract to commission, and pass the physical and fitness test your Junior year.

 

[GWU PNS (emeritus)]

Sorry to belabor this question, but do non-scholarship Advanced Standing midshipmen get the monthly stipend without signing a contract to commission? That seems lIke a great incentive - get paid the stipend for 18 months without an obligation. My understanding from the AROTC program is that if you are allowed to continue in the advanced program you only get the stipend once you sign the contract to commission, and pass the physical and fitness test your Junior year.

If they accept advanced standing, they do sign a commitment to commission. However, if they decline at the last minute they don't owe much money back and in several cases the government has opted not to recoup the stipend money.

 

[vmifan]

I believe anyone can take the Naval Science classes but after two years, unless on scholarship or advanced standing, they cannot participate in Lab or PT, where the real leadership and athletic experiences lay; nor can they wear the uniform. I assume the OP is referring to the stuff they can't due when he says he wants the "military experience". Frankly, I think someone who wants the "military experience" should do the 4 years and then the 5 years active duty and 3 years IRR. There is time for the civilian STEM career after turning 27 (approximate completion of AD experience) and the PhD. At least that's what I would do (and wish I had done).

Yes, that is the experience I want. I want to participate in PT and do all the exercises and training, but I do not want to commission. I do not want to spend five years on active duty. I prefer a civilian career. In this case, I would have to take the Army ROTC; though It would be awkward. I grew up hearing Go Navy Beat Army. My step dad is a USNA grad.

 

[vmifan]

If they accept advanced standing, they do sign a commitment to commission. However, if they decline at the last minute they don't owe much money back and in several cases the government has opted not to recoup the stipend money.

I would not feel comfortable doing this. This is not honest. It does feel right.

 

[vmifan]

If you are just looking for a "military experience" without actually serving, it shouldn't be a big deal to do Army ROTC versus NROTC. The VMI experience would be the same regardless. And who knows you may really like it and want to give active duty a try or just National Guard/reserves.

Oh, and a family member in the Navy is great but no reason to limit yourself. I'm Army, my brother's Air Force, his kid's Navy, and my kid's Marines. It was the best fit for all of us.

My step dad is a USNA grad. It would feel awkward for me doing Army ROTC after hearing Go Navy Beat Army when I was a kid.

 

[Capt MJ]

I would not feel comfortable doing this. This is not honest. It does feel right.

No - after you pull/shred the pork, you can go any direction you want. I meant the bullet points as choices.

 

[vmifan]

“All NROTC units give a person 2 years to be accepted on a scholarship program. After that they get dropped if they have not received a scholarship offer.“

I recognize ROTC units now only have resources to train obligated midshipmen. But there Used to be a College Programmer option - for selected students to continue to the Advance Course without a scholarship at discretion of the PNS. Has this been dropped?

I know quite a few Naval Officers who completed the program without a scholarship. Some never were offered the scholarship, but allowed to stick with the program and commission. Would be a shame to not give the PNS the option to allow someone to continue

If VMI NORTC only has resources to train commissioning students, why does Army ROTC have resources to train non commissioning cadets? Does the Army have an unlimited amount of resources?
And of curiosity, are NROTC students at VMI called cadets or midshipmen? I have understood VMI students are cadets.

 

[GWU PNS (emeritus)]

I would not feel comfortable doing this. This is not honest. It does feel right.

If a person signs up for advanced standing and never intends to commission, then I agree with you in terms of being honest. But there are people who get right to the goal line and change their mind. My comment was a reply to a different person's question and not meant to be giving a recommendation.

You have mentioned a few times your step dad is a USNA grad. Perhaps he is better positioned to explain the process to you. None of us here appear to be able to field your questions to your satisfaction.

 

[JohnMcLane]

My step dad is a USNA grad. It would feel awkward for me doing Army ROTC after hearing Go Navy Beat Army when I was a kid.

This Thanksgiving I had 2 USMA cadets, a USNA Midshipman, an AF ROTC, and a Marine ROTC crash in my basement. You will be mixed at VMI as well. Don't confuse good-natured, team-building rivalries with real life. It's a fun game and that's all. I doubt your dad cares what ROTC you do especially as you don't intend to commission (other than good-naturedly). And if you want the military experience, depending on your definition, Army ROTC actually throws hand grenades, sleeps outside, and touches and shoots machine guns regularly.

 

[MidCakePa]

My step dad is a USNA grad. It would feel awkward for me doing Army ROTC after hearing Go Navy Beat Army when I was a kid.

You seem to be overthinking this. Very recently, the USMA Commandant had two daughters attend USNA. They were all interviewed on TV before the Army-Navy Game. None seemed the least bit awkward — just plenty of mutual pride.

 

[glen]

If VMI NORTC only has resources to train commissioning students, why does Army ROTC have resources to train non commissioning cadets? Does the Army have an unlimited amount of resources?
And of curiosity, are NROTC students at VMI called cadets or midshipmen? I have understood VMI students are cadets.

VMI junior and senior Cadets not contracting to commission do not take Army training, they just take classroom leadership courses, but do not participate in ROTC Labs, ROTC FTXs etc., or summer encampments as I understand it. They take other VMI courses in lieu of the ROTC labs. This allows the Army instructors, like the Air Force and Navy instructors to focus on contracting students.

 

[kinnem]

If VMI NORTC only has resources to train commissioning students, why does Army ROTC have resources to train non commissioning cadets? Does the Army have an unlimited amount of resources?
And of curiosity, are NROTC students at VMI called cadets or midshipmen? I have understood VMI students are cadets.

Army ROTC also commissions all cadets that complete the 4 year program. The difference is you get to choose the Reserves vs Active Duty at commissioning. Reserves would allow you to pursue civilian opportunities while serving. NROTC and AFROTC only commission active duty ensigns and second lieutenants

 

[kinnem]

Yes, that is the experience I want. I want to participate in PT and do all the exercises and training, but I do not want to commission. I do not want to spend five years on active duty. I prefer a civilian career. In this case, I would have to take the Army ROTC; though It would be awkward. I grew up hearing Go Navy Beat Army. My step dad is a USNA grad.

Everything has a cost. Sounds like you're not willing to pay NROTC/Navy's cost.

 

[USMC8995]

If you want the military experience without the obligation then I would recommend Texas A&M's Corps of Cadets. I think VMI requires enrollment in ROTC for Corps of Cadets but I don't know if that requirement is for all 4 years. Texas A&M only requires ROTC for the 1st 2 years to teach basic military customs and leadership skills needed to participate in the corps.