Pro's / Con's

Regarding Pima and Bullet on this forum...

I've been an AF officer for 25 years, 7 months, 9 days now...and an Admission Liaison Officer for USAFA for almost that many years.

That being said, they're "almost" as good as ALO's, IMHO. Their knowledge of the service is that which can ONLY be gained/gleened from having "been there, done that, got multiple t-shirts, holiday's alone, SAM's dodged, etc...etc..."

When I read their posts...it's as if I or any other "old head" wrote it. And I like to see their perspective.

So please don't question their "bona fides..." they paid their dues and earned the right.

That's my 85 cents worth.

Steve
DLOD, AZ
AFA '83
 
Bullet said it well enough, just so you can understand how much he wanted the college he is attending, he never ever opened another acceptance letter from any other college after that day with ROTC in Feb. He would walk in like Bullet said and we would say here, he just went up to his room to hang with friends... he had no care at all about ever opening it...I would shout behind can I at least open it...Yea sure, if you want Mom was the typical response.

To all of the cadets for 13 that is how you should feel when you receive your responses from other colleges, if you truly want the AFA. If that is how you feel you will do just fine:thumb:
 
Pima said:
Bullet said it well enough, just so you can understand how much he wanted the college he is attending, he never ever opened another acceptance letter from any other college after that day with ROTC in Feb. He would walk in like Bullet said and we would say here, he just went up to his room to hang with friends... he had no care at all about ever opening it...I would shout behind can I at least open it...Yea sure, if you want Mom was the typical response.

To all of the cadets for 13 that is how you should feel when you receive your responses from other colleges, if you truly want the AFA. If that is how you feel you will do just fine:thumb:
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Sums it up very well; and like I tell my candidates: if you want it bad enough, you'll know it (and so will everyone else) and if you don't...it'll show.

He obviously knew what he wanted and was only willing to settle for that.

He'll go far.
 
Flieger, Pima, Bullet, all the current cadets on this board, and everyone else that I have forgotten to mention. YOU ARE what the academy, ROTC, and the military is all about. You are what makes us a family. The hardest thing to explain to people asking about the pros/cons; or "What's it like" type questions; are FEELINGS. How do you explain the FEELINGS you have for OTHER military members that you've never met in person? How do you explain the RESPECT for the opinions of people who you've never seen their face? It is a very difficult thing to explain. You know that the bond you have with these people run deep. Deeper sometimes than some of your own family members. It's like when I came home from a TDY (Temporary duty) or deployment and felt out of place. Yet I could walk into an American Legion, VFW, see someone at Wal-Mart with a "RETIRED Army/Air Force/Marine/Navy hat on, etc... and WE could feel totally comfortable talking to each other and confiding about our problems and joys. When you return home, many times you didn't talk about some things at the office. Even though they too were part of the FAMILY. What goes TDY - STAYS TDY. Good and Bad.

So, thank all of you for contributing. Thank you all for your time. And thank all of you for serving or willing to serve. For those who still ask the pros/cons and similar questions; try and read through the words we speak and try and understand the FEELINGS. I know it's difficult. But that is the GREATEST PRO of the academy/ROTC/Military Lifestyle there is. The family environment. The camaraderie. If any of you could be a fly on the wall and go to a tailgate party prior to an Air Force football game and see a bunch of retired/active duty/cadets/etc... all socializing even though some of them have NEVER met each other before; yet they seem like they've known each other for 30 years. Then you'd understand. Walk into an American legion or VFW and talk with some old timers. You'll understand.

Sorry, but it's hard to explain or describe a FEELING. But THAT FEELING is what it's all about. It's willing to stand/fly/sail side by side with another person who you don't know or barely know, and realize they are your brother or sister. That they will do whatever to help you, and you will do the same for them. That's the PRO of the academy and military service. Those who come in and can't understand that FEELING; or don't relate to that feeling; obviously don't see the military in the same way. They will serve their time; whether it's 5 years after the academy or 4 years after enlisting. They will have honorably served their country. And they will move on. But if you're the type who can relate to the "FEELING" that I am LONG WINDED in trying to explain; then you will receive the greatest gift/feeling that you've ever had. You don't have to stay 20+ years and retire to be part of that family. It can be done in your first year at the academy or ROTC. It can be done in your first enlistment and then you get out. But once you have that FEELING, it's with you forever. When you see the vet at wal-mart. When you meet someone at your new civilian job who is part of the family and you relate differently with them than ANYONE ELSE THERE. When you are glad that you've retired, or gotten out and moved on, but GOD THERE IS SOMETHING IN YOUR LIFE THAT'S MISSING!!! Or many other times in your life. Anyway; THAT is the PRO of the academy/rotc/military service. Thank you all again for contributing to this forum and being the cornerstone of the FAMILY for the new generation who want to serve their country. Later.... Mike.....
 
Mike, one of the bests posts I've read on here in a long time. And I'm glad to see someone finally captured the "pro" side of the arguement so eloquently. Your post takes us back to the original purpose here, as we we're leaning a little too far towards the "con" side, IMO.

Those of you who have been following Pima and I on these threads know our FEELINGS about our military family. Honestly, in a lot of aspects, they are stronger feelings than what we have for our actual extended family. And when our children meet their own loves of their lives and walk down that ailse with them one day, we will probably need to get another section in the church just to accomodate all of our military family.

During my recent retirement ceremony, I tried to convey to the young men and women who were following me in that career just how important this feeling was. Some go it, some didn't (and I feel sorry for those in the latter). But ALL of them saw a man who has faced down the enemy in combat, buried crew mates and close friends, pulled the 8 hour sessions in the vault getting the new Lt to understand the latest tactics, spent countless months away from home, led the charge in the O'Club bar, and proudly wore the uniform every day for 20+ years, always displaying a professional and respectful demeanor, break down in tears and have to stop speaking in order to compose myself as it came time to finally say good-bye to the men and women I so proudly served with. They always will be my family.

So, to you young folk on this forum who want to know the #1 "pro" for attending an academy? Well, get out that DVD or web photo, and look for that one picture or scene of the Cadets on graduaton day when they are finally sworn in and dismissed. You can actually feel the joy and love as they go apple sugar for the next few minutes, hugging and back-slapping each other. Do graduates at other universities get that feeling as well. Sure, but not to the extent that the new Lts feel for the entire day from "making it" through the Academy. Almost ALL of the acad grads I know list that day as one of the happiest in their lives, right up there with their wedding days and the birth of their kids. Most public school graduates will have some fond memories, and that's about it. They just didn't share "that experience", to the point where the new Lts look at each other with "we made it" grins from ear to ear.

I for one am jealous of not being a part of the Academy grad ceremony. The closest I can get is the end of SERE school, bonding together with the men and women I just went through a sort time in hell with. Or perhaps the day they pinned on my wings. But frankly, they aren't even close....

So, you want a "Pro"? It's the fact that at the Academy, you'll be leaving one family only to gain another. And try finding that at State U.!
 
Back on Topic

PRO:

It will be hard, you will be pushed to the point you want to throw in the towel. However, that is why you will succeed as an AF officer. You will get it from a young age the cliche Service before Self You will be extremely equipped to get through UPT, b/c for some of you it will seem like a cake walk

Only your camrades will be able to decipher what you are saying...TDY for SERES is not something your friends behind will understand

Great TDY's as a cadet. Experiences that make the yr worth it, or at least that is what most people say.

Can one day make 4 digs endure the pain, while you laugh at night about them.

CONS

If you aren't in it to graduate from the Little engineering school in the rockies it will be painful...Don't like physics, just wait

25% will not graduate, look to the left, right and behind or in front of you, statistically 1 of you will not be there in the end.

No personal sheets for months, and learning to sleep on top of them:shake:

If you are the size of potter you will need to be walked to class on certain days:eek:

Getting the AFA chapel for your wedding on graduation weekend at the best time :wink:


I will touch on for a second about what many of the people who have lived a military life as a career. Even the AFA understands the bond. Bullet retired in Aug...actually 8-08-08...as we all know the AFA was already back in. A certain person was invited to Bullets retirement and needed special permission to attend (we were in NC), the AFA gave it...I believe to this day that the AFA even saw it as a learning lesson. Many of you can't even fathom what a retirement ceremony means, but the AFA has seen them and there is only 1 thing as touching and emotional as a retirement ceremony (unfortunately it is a missing man). I also believe that Bullets retirement cemented their belief that this was the right decision for them...just as for our DS, it was cemented for him, that his Dad was respected even without being a ring knocker:wink:
 
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All well spoken. I think that's what has captured me is that feeling. Only been in it for 2.5 years (wow, already?!). I can't imagine having done anything else now, and I would never have been as happy anywhere else as I am here. For me, its been a dream come true plus more.

Bullet said:
I for one am jealous of not being a part of the Academy grad ceremony. The closest I can get is the end of SERE school, bonding together with the men and women I just went through a sort time in hell with. Or perhaps the day they pinned on my wings. But frankly, they aren't even close....
Click to expand...

You'll see one a bit closer in due time. :wink::shake:
 
So now that I've caught up on all these posts, I have to ask Pima and Bullet if they (now with 20/20 hindsight) saw signs that their ds didn't really want USAFA at all? This is so shocking to me because I remember meeting you all and at that time (although your son was not feeling well that day, I remember! :) ) he was still eagerly waiting for that Appointment. Is he now feeling badly that he took a nomination/s that he didn't really want?

Anyway, congrats to him for finding his niche. I hope all is well in VA.
 
Bullet,
Thanks for clarifying that you are here to “pass on some advise from our years in the service and from what we've seen here on numerous occasions.” I am sure many out there appreciate your insight into what your experiences were as an Air Force Officer. That statement cleared up a lot for me and I decided that maybe I was reading too much into your posts…I have to admit that the posts made by you and Pima blur together in my memory… sorry.
THEN….
Pima posts after you to get us back on track. I left after reading that post with the same feelings that brought me to post in the first place.
Please hear me out.

Bullet and Pima.
You both give a lot of good advice I am sure. I don’t doubt that you know a lot about the military lifestyle, at least from the perspective of the AF and as an officer in the field you were in. I am sure you also have some good advice about the application process of Service Academies as well as for ROTC Scholarships. Your posts and advice are helpful to many. My main reason for finally writing, was to find out why I come away from reading many of your posts feeling that you have said a lot of negative things about academy life when you have never attended one. I also feel like you spend a lot of time defending your son’s decision to accept an ROTC scholarship. In doing so, I feel you are promoting or defending ROTC over AFA, not just trying to open the eyes of the uninformed.

Examples- and I will include parts of your last post that gave me the feeling, once again, that you are trying to make ROTC look better than a Service Academy. In trying to inform people of truths, I think you are being a little partial to the fact that your son is doing ROTC. That is fine, most of us do tend to be a little defensive regarding our children and our views. My point is try to keep it more honest and stick maybe to your experiences as a military family.

"The AFA is known as the little engineering school in the rockies, and if you don't want to get an engineering degree should you really go there, when you can get an AFROTC scholarship and study what you want from a top university as ranked by USNWR and Time? Both kids will graduate with the exact same rank, committment and commission. YOU GO BECAUSE YOU WANT THE ACADEMY EDUCATION...END OF SUBJECT...PERIOD...DOT"

Oh no….ouch. My child is definitely not an engineering major. She is, however studying what she wants at the AFA. Did you know they have a scholars program at USAFA that focuses on the humanities? Did you know that room and board is not affordable for many families at one of those top universities???? Actually, there are traditionally more pre-med slots (percentage) for Academy graduates than for ROTC graduates? Much more than the ACADEMY EDUCATION factored into our daughter choosing to attend the AFA.

Referring to your post about having your son pretend to endure basic…reciting menus PT etc….

Somehow, doing it alone with your parents at home, is not at all what my basic experienced during the summer. Doing all that together with your peers, helping them, receiving help, etc. It was actually one of the most rewarding experiences for my daughter. Something that you just have to experience yourself before forming a valid opinion. Isn’t this what service is all about? My daughter really dreaded the summer, but she just has a little gleam in her eye now when she talks about it. Something you portrayed as a negative….that might just not be….



“PRO:
It will be hard, you will be pushed to the point you want to throw in the towel.”

Some might be…so are you saying don’t try because you might not make it? WHY IS THIS UNDER THE PRO LIST….PRO WHAT PRO DON’T GO TO THE ACADEMY???? However, that is why you will succeed as an AF officer. You will get it from a young age the cliche Service before Self You will be extremely equipped to get through UPT, b/c for some of you it will seem like a cake walk Oh now I see….pro because you might want to throw in the towel because it is so crazy ridiculous there that it will make you equipped to get through UPT( whatever that is) What about all the officers that don’t go to the academy. Anyway, I took this as another dig.

"Only your camrades will be able to decipher what you are saying...TDY for SERES is not something your friends behind will understand. Great TDY's as a cadet. Experiences that make the yr worth it, or at least that is what most people say."
Actually, with all the abbreviations, I have no idea what you are saying…not sure your point...maybe that is your point...?

"Can one day make 4 digs endure the pain, while you laugh at night about them."
What? Did you actually say that? No, I did not take that as a joke.

"THE SA's are the absolute best education for somebody who is ready now to give 24/7/365. If you still want to be a kid and experience college than maybe and I stress maybe you should think about ROTC."

Come on , 24/7/365. Not hardly. My kids were just home for several weeks and trust me, they are still kids. At AF, my 4 degree has more passes than she could possible need. This is an example of a not so real reality check of yours. If my children were at a college where we were footing the bill and no paycheck was coming in, they would have some sort of job. It just probably wouldn’t entail marching around in circles and doing PT…They would be paying a sports club for that privilege!?

"As CC and many other posters have stated 25% of any incoming class will not graduate. Academics is a large part of it, but so is the life. Graduating from the Academy will not make you the best officer, the best officer has it in them already."

Why didn’t you say, ROTC graduates will not make you the best officer? Just wondering.

"I have met great officers that were ROTC grad, including my husband. I have also met crappy ones. At our last base the Vice Wing and the OG were ROTC grads, not AFA."

Again, and your point? I bet there is a Vice Wing and or OG (I don’t even know what that means), at some base who graduated from the AFA…so what? There are probably a lot more non- AFA officers period. Defensive. An example of a post that I read as trying to defend ROTC. Is the point of this Pro/Con thread to decide between a military or civilian career or to decide between a Service Academy and ROTC?

"In the end, we all should stand up and clap for each incoming class at any SA, they are willing to dedicate their lives 24/7 to the AF at a young age. We also need to understand that ROTC cadets care just as much about the AF. Some AFROTC cadets will go that route b/c they did not get an appt. Some will go the route b/c like our son, make a determination that they want to be an AF career officer and their college yrs are their last hurrah! It doesn't mean that they are less committed or they are only going to a traditional college to party."

To me all very defensive…

That is all….I will stop. Just wanted to explain why I posted in the first place.
 
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Salj, I think you need to get that giant chip off your shoulder. In my opinion, both Bullet and Pima supply this forum with a lot of valuable insight. It seems to me that they have been simply presenting ROTC as another option to obtain a commission. Contrary to what you seem to believe, they haven't been bashing the Service Academies. The SAs are not for everyone. Just like every college, the SAs have their pros and cons. For many, the cons outweigh the pros. They reminded us that ROTC is a great option for those who may prefer a traditional college expereince to that of a SA. Great posts Bullet and Pima, keep 'em coming.
 
Wow, I never thought I would be accused as having a chip on my shoulder for trying to point out on the SERVICE ACADEMY FORUM that the AFA is not as bad or scary a place as those who aren't/haven't been there think it might be. ROTC, of course, is a great option. Just don't ditch the academy while trying to prove that point.
 
flymom,

Yes, I recall the day we met your family...DS was truly sicker than a dog (and we spent 3 hrs in a car loading meds in him...if yor recall he sat between Bullet and I....I think I was more concerned about getting others sick than the reception)
At that pt DS had not heard back from UMD (many of you are smart enough o figure out his school since you are also on CC, so I might as well put it out there) He actually heard from them on Monday, Wed, he got his scholarship, Bullet and I talked to him over the weekend and he took a day of leave the following Friday to go there. As I have stated before DS is in the Scholars program for Govt and military history...it is very selective only 60 incoming freshman are invited into the program ea yr (Gotta be Mom and brag)
As for the noms, no I don't think we should regret taking the spot...for newcomers he had 4 (all three MOCs and Pres). I do regret not having the heart to heart earlier, up to his acceptance we truly believed that AFA was his dream. DS threw us for a curve ball when he applied, we never ever approached him about the AFA. However, he was also a typical kid, his jr yr all he wanted was Notre Dame AFROTC...even bought the hoodie online for xmas.:rolleyes:. Late spring of his jr yr he started talking about the AFA and we just said throw your name in. We were shocked and amazed by mid-June that they had assigned him an ALO...even his ALO was amazed at how early he was assigned. We went through the summer and he completed his DODmerb and started his recs as soon as school got back in(again our family had no clue about the process, so we didn't know about teacher and guidance counselor recs or even SLS).
We have said this over and over again, for everybody there is a different path, our DS's will be like your military career it will twist and turn so quickly your head will spin.
I think when I talk about the illusion and glory, I must admit to myself that Bullet and I were wrapped up in it also...especially when you come onto sites like this and read some unfortunate child not getting a nom, knowing yours does, it adds into the ego. Nobody last yr (no offense to anybody) sat there and said look deeper...see if it is a fit. That is why Bullet and I sit here and say things, b/c it is okay to say you know that I want to be in the AF just not right now. I don't believe it makes anybody a better or worse person or potential AF Officer.

Salj I will respond, but this post already kicked me off and I had to resign in, I am not ignoring your response.
 
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Pima, good luck to your son. I have no doubt both of your children will do great in whatever they choose. Also, as proven by Flieger83, if your son changes his mind about USAFA, it's not too late! :smile:

Salj, I don't think you have a chip on your shoulder. Actually, I think you bring up good points. This is a Service Academy forum and I think it's a great place to find info about each particular SA. I for one had many, many questions answered here. My daughter even spoke to several cadets prior to leaving for BCT. All have been indispensible to us. We have even made wonderful friends via this site.

To me though, the best advice on a SA forum, comes from those with direct academy connections. When ALOs, DodMerb people, academy families, and especially cadets themselves post, they offer the best answers because they have seen academy life first hand or have direct info from the academies. Their info is usually spot on.

We all know there are pro's and con's to all the choices our kids have these days. I would hope this USAFA forum continues to be a great place for Air Force Academy discussions. I believe there is an ROTC forum, and actually a forum for all service academies. Also, there is College Confidential which includes a huge list of just about every college in America. Thank God we have so many choices and places to get our questions answered! I have no idea what people did before the internet!
 
I'm so lucky I even stumbled across this forum. I have no clue how... but it was probably the best accident of my life :smile:
 
Okay as I posted to flymom, soccer and salj posted ( iam such a slow typer:frown:)

Anyway, lets all take a breather here...nice cleansing breaths...now let me respond to salj pt by pt.

Point 1
Just don't ditch the academy while trying to prove that point.
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I never ever have ditched the AFA or any other SA. I think all SA's are a world class education, and we should support every cadet/plebe/mid etc for being there and dedicating their young life to the military....show me one post that I have stated take ROTC over the AFA b/c the AFA s*cks.

What I have said is think long and hard, it is not an easy life...don't go for a free education, b/c nothing in life is free...including the SA's.

Point 2
Oh no….ouch. My child is definitely not an engineering major. She is, however studying what she wants at the AFA. Did you know they have a scholars program at USAFA that focuses on the humanities? Did you know that room and board is not affordable for many families at one of those top universities???? Actually, there are traditionally more pre-med slots (percentage) for Academy graduates than for ROTC graduates? Much more than the ACADEMY EDUCATION factored into our daughter choosing to attend the AFA
Click to expand...

There are core courses and it does not matter what your major is...YOU WILL TAKE THEM...again end of subject ...period...dot. I can't find the link in the bowels of the AFA site to show when, but here is a snippet from the site
The core curriculum will arm you with the knowledge you need to succeed in today's world with more than 30 courses covering:

biology
chemistry
computer science
mathematics
physics
aeronautical engineering
astronautical engineering
civil engineering
electrical engineering
engineering mechanics
behavioral sciences
economics
law
management
political science
English
foreign languages
history
philosophy
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KEY WORD CORE ...that means you take it! I see a heck of a lot of math science courses compared to humanities. Go to any university for a LA and they are not going to require civil engineering.

You have not been associated with the AF, but ask your DD...ask flieger, CC, ds, and any other person that has known somebody from the AFA...thay do call it the little engineering school in the rockies...it use to be the little all boys engineering school in the rockies:wink:

Point 3
Some might be…so are you saying don’t try because you might not make it? WHY IS THIS UNDER THE PRO LIST….PRO WHAT PRO DON’T GO TO THE ACADEMY???? However, that is why you will succeed as an AF officer. You will get it from a young age the cliche Service before Self You will be extremely equipped to get through UPT, b/c for some of you it will seem like a cake walk Oh now I see….pro because you might want to throw in the towel because it is so crazy ridiculous there that it will make you equipped to get through UPT( whatever that is) What about all the officers that don’t go to the academy. Anyway, I took this as another dig
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UPT= Undergrad Pilot Training
No dig at all to ROTC...Remember my DS is a ROTC cadet...what I was stating is it is hard, and you will learn to put the service before yourself. Be honest and be real... ROTC will not place your through the same rigors, thus it is a pro.

Point 4

"Only your camrades will be able to decipher what you are saying...TDY for SERES is not something your friends behind will understand. Great TDY's as a cadet. Experiences that make the yr worth it, or at least that is what most people say."
Actually, with all the abbreviations, I have no idea what you are saying…not sure your point...maybe that is your point...?
Click to expand...

I'll leave that to everybody else to explain..I guess I proved my pt.

Point 5
"Can one day make 4 digs endure the pain, while you laugh at night about them."
What? Did you actually say that? No, I did not take that as a joke.
Click to expand...

Welcome to AD life, you're family, just like siblings that beat up on each other, it is a bonding experience...ask the cadets, none of want to see major pain, but it feels good to be on the other side.

BTW it is even common place in the AD world... on another thread we talked about how FNG's are treated.

Point 6
THE SA's are the absolute best education for somebody who is ready now to give 24/7/365. If you still want to be a kid and experience college than maybe and I stress maybe you should think about ROTC."

Come on , 24/7/365. Not hardly. My kids were just home for several weeks and trust me, they are still kids. At AF, my 4 degree has more passes than she could possible need
Click to expand...

WOW....quick question, when your DD gets a speeding ticket or in an accident when she is at home on leave...will her 1st thought be fear of folks or fear of getting kicked out...mine is the 1st, yours is probably the latter. Heck as a spouse I was afraid of getting speeding tickets b/c I knew Bullet would be standing at attention even as an LTC in front of a commander.
Come summer how many weeks will your 4 dig be home? When your child returns to school are they in uniform or casual dress...i.e 24/7/365

Point 7
I have met great officers that were ROTC grad, including my husband. I have also met crappy ones. At our last base the Vice Wing and the OG were ROTC grads, not AFA."

Again, and your point? I bet there is a Vice Wing and or OG (I don’t even know what that means), at some base who graduated from the AFA…so what? There are probably a lot more non- AFA officers period. Defensive. An example of a post that I read as trying to defend ROTC. Is the point of this Pro/Con thread to decide between a military or civilian career or to decide between a Service Academy and ROTC?
Click to expand...

OG=Operation Group...They are the person in charge of Flyers...i.e Operations. Vice Wing is the person that is like the VP.

Actually in he flyers world it really doesn't come down to AFA vs ROTC, it comes down to patch wearer vs non-patch.

Can't figure out te military or civilian part, b/c civilian has no ability to ever be a Vice or an OG

Point 8

"In the end, we all should stand up and clap for each incoming class at any SA, they are willing to dedicate their lives 24/7 to the AF at a young age. We also need to understand that ROTC cadets care just as much about the AF. Some AFROTC cadets will go that route b/c they did not get an appt. Some will go the route b/c like our son, make a determination that they want to be an AF career officer and their college yrs are their last hurrah! It doesn't mean that they are less committed or they are only going to a traditional college to party."

To me all very defensive
Click to expand...

My apologies to you for reading it as something more than it was...so I will try again.

To every SA cadet...I am proud of you for dedicating your life at such a young age to defend our country.
To every ROTC cadet...thank you in advance for coming up to the table when you graduate and defending us.

I think it is wonderful your DD is at the AFA. G Bless, but what I hope you see is that Bullet nad I want to make sure these kids get the big picture...it is not all roses for everybody...there is a 25% attrition rate, that means at least somebody on this thread will not graduate. Is that harsh...yes...is it real...yes. Our DS not going meant that somebody else who wanted to truly be there got in. You only go b/c it is the only thing you ever wanted to do...and not for any other reason, which includes becoming a pilot or for a free education.
 
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I have been on these forums for some time, believe the that overall presentation or balance has been quite good, and have truly appreciated the insight of those who post here and on CC with operational experience. There is a large network of parents out here who went to college in the late 70's or early 80's when military service was frankly an unpopular thing to do. Attitudes regarding military service have changed dramatically.

Our cadet has done by well by any measure. If fact, I can easily argue that he has had a better experience than most. That said, even he has "hit the wall."

As a sleep deprived and grossly overworked 26 yo medical resident my parents could not understand why I didn't always "love" my job. 24 years later they now worry about how much I work. Basically I just tell my cadet that I'm still a "smack." So when the **** hits the fan, and it will, despite what I thought was a shared or common experience, I was told "you don't understand."

I have to rely on others and this is where I come to learn.
 
Yes; this is definitely becoming a somewhat HOT topic. But guess what? That's good. Remember all; perception is 90% fact. It appears that what is written some times and what is perceived are 2 different things. For instance; Pima's comment on the Air Force academy being the "Little Engineering School in the Rockies". And if you didn't want an engineering degree, should you even apply there. But as quoted; she went on to say the you go to the Air Force Academy because you want the academy education. My perception of that is definitely not that you shouldn't apply to the academy. On the contrary!!! DON'T APPLY TO THE ACADEMY ONLY IF YOU WANT AN ENGINEERING DEGREE. That is the total truth.

My son is only in his 4th year (Freshman); and he hasn't totally figured out what he wants to do for a major. That's OK. He's got 2 years to figure that out. It might be behavioral science; it could be Comp-Sci; it could even be one of the military oriented strategy/tactics type of degree. He's also be studying spanish for 6 years and doing well enough at the academy with it that some of the profs are suggesting he even minor in that and have that in his resume. He definitely wants to fly. As does half the students there do. He also loves to play football. But when it all came down to it, he wanted an "ACADEMY EDUCATION" as the means of him becoming a commissioned officer and serving in the Air Force. If he can't be a pilot; so be it. No matter what his degree is in, he will be fine. Because he'll be able to do his NUMBER 1 GOAL; To Serve in the Air Force as a Commissioned Officer.

And I got no different interpretation from Pima's posts. I've bounced posts back and forth with her and bullet here and on college confidential (Before I got booted off there. LOL!) And I have never heard or perceived any negative towards the academy or promoting ROTC above them. I'm sure it's just a mis-perception of what was said. So; hopefully we can all agree that the Academy, ROTC, and OTS are great programs for EVENTUALLY becoming a commissioned officer. And that that service "Should" be the ultimate goal and purpose of any applicant applying or traversing any of these 3 methods. All the other aspects such as the cost of education, medical/dental, travel, other benefits "Should" all be secondary reasons for going any of these 3 routes. later... mike....
 
You guys really need to put this to rest and restrain your hands from typing on this post. I like to read postings here but this is getting too personal and not constructive.
 
christcorp, I didnt know you got booted from CC, lol. From your posts on SAF it seems like you would be the last person booted from any forum
 
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