Pro's / Con's
- Thread starter Falconfan14
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I hope to get a chance, what are the times and place again? (i think i deleted the e-mail oops lol)
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I have gotten the great opportunity to fly a multi-million c-130 sim 3 different times, although fun, your experience sounds much more fun
mmmm c130 sim or f22...
tomorrow from 8 til 12 it's open. lotsa cool posters and stuff too.
i thoroughly enjoyed it.. got washed in a heap of technology i didnt even think was possible. i flew and air-to-air sortie against 4 su-27s, and they were into billions of pieces before they knew i was in the sky. unbelievable and completely unfair to the enemy.. i asked him a few questions that he couldnt answer (classified) haha
it's cool, i talked to amazing test pilots and got a lot of awesome stories. definitely worth the time
tomorrow from 8 til 12 it's open. lotsa cool posters and stuff too.
i thoroughly enjoyed it.. got washed in a heap of technology i didnt even think was possible. i flew and air-to-air sortie against 4 su-27s, and they were into billions of pieces before they knew i was in the sky. unbelievable and completely unfair to the enemy.. i asked him a few questions that he couldnt answer (classified) haha
it's cool, i talked to amazing test pilots and got a lot of awesome stories. definitely worth the time
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what room?
Bullet
10-Year Member
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- 986
HNeedle, an EXCELLENT example for the "Pro" column!
OK, time to end the petty bickering on this thread and get it back on track. But first off, I want to apologize to all the potential future candidates out there who have had to witness some rather heated debates from people with two different perspectives on the issue. One one hand, you have parents of current cadets very sensitive to anything that may seem like dig against an academy education or motives to attend (the "we are ALL proud of you for getting into this fine institution" point of view). On the other, you have the opinions of some former and current military officers who have asked you to look beyond the academy experience and set your goals to be the best officer you can be, no matter what the military asks of you (the "we hope you will join us and live the core value of Service before Self" point of view). Niether is wrong, they are just looking at the same portrait from different angles. and like an art piece, everyone will have different perspectives.
BUT, this is a thread on the Pros and Cons of the academy, so I will give you My take on what I think the value and costs are for attending this fine institutuion.
(Now: a particular crowd will probably get on here in a tizzy complaining how I've never been there, and therefore have NO right to speak my mind. I'm a little dissapointed in their attitudes and accusations that those who haven't been there are just playing a "sour grapes" game. However, they ARE correct in that my experience in the life at the academy is nil. But, my experience in the active duty is just a tad more than them or the cadets they blindly and innaccurately suggest should be the only ones to post here. (and I feel they only suggested it because they disagree or were upset by what was presented). But they simply forgot that in this country, EVERYONE is entitled to their opinions, whether they agree with them or not)
You'll get a lot more value listening to EVERYONE's opinions, the parents who had to help and support with the process of getting into a Service Academy, the cadets who are there or have been there, and the folks with current or past military experience. While each will have different perspectives, ALL have points that you will need to consider as you make what is probably the biggest decision in your life.
To be fair, my perspective will mostly relate to "how does the Academy get you ready for Active Duty. But, I can add some other OPINIONS as well on other matters. Feel free to do with my list as you like (and I'm sure some won't even bother or have already put myself and Pima on thier "ignore" list), but like most on this forum, I spending my time here to give you a piece of my mind that is driven by my heart...
So here it goes:
Pros:
1) You'll all be preparing to serve your country as officers. There are several routes to do this, but NONE can compare to the leadership lab experience you will be getting at a SA. ROTC; you'll have half a day of classes and some drill each week for your four year college experience, plus one summer seminar for either 4 or 6 weeks, and a little extra opportunites for a leadership position as a Junior and Senior. This will give you limited time towards developing your leadership skills that will be crucial when you first pin on those butter bars. OCS: NO leadership development (of the military kind) while in college. You go to a "Leadership boot camp" after you've graduated. The SAs: While you are there, EVERYDAY is a leadership lab (or "opportunity"). You will be given ample opportunity to hone and develop those skills through the daily challenges you will face. IMO, Academy gradutes ARE MUCH better prepared to meet the leadership challenges you will face as a 2d Lt right off the bat, the other Lts who came into the active forces through other means will have to play catch up.
2) A world-class education at one of the nation's top universities, with some of the finest facilities avaialble at the undergraduate level. Included will be instructors and professors who will ACTUALLY CARE about you and will be there for you for that extra push or help when you need it. You WON'T be a number in some huge lecture hall that does tend to happen in civilian institutions. These instructors WANT you to succeed, they have an extra duty in their hearts to make the best generation of future officers they can (they know the consequences if they fail).
3) Opportunities for extra-curricular activities and "outside of the class room learning experiences" that you could NEVER get at any civilian institution. HNeedle's F-22 sim ride is a PERFECT example of this (and something I'm VERY jealous of! ). How many other universities have flying clubs, jump clubs, rifile clubs and on and on and on (if you have an interest, they have a club for it. Better yet, try something new and LEARN from it).
4) INSTANT life-long friends and people you would fall on a sword for if they needed it. You will share a common experience with cadets just like you, and the challenges you will face will create bonds that can't be broken. You will immediately "fit in", something many students at "other" institutions have a hard time finding. The can get lost as a tiny number in a big situation.
5) A free education. Yes, I'll even bring this heated topic up. You SHOULD graduate with not only NO debts, be maybe even a little extra in your pocket. (I can talk to you all about how to make some smart financial decisions early in your careers on a separate thread, if your interested). Not many new graduates will be in the same boat; even the ones will full rides to some great institutions.
6) If you want to fly as your career, the AFA basically garauntees you'll get to take a shot at it by giving you a UPT (pilot training) slot if your graduate medically qualified and not in trouble. Pilot slots through ROTC and OCS are limited and very competitive. How well you do there AFTER the AFA is up to you, but historically the Academy Grads do better at UPT because they are used to the pressures and have more opportunities to fly while in school .
CONS:
1) All those "pros" above come at a cost. Your free time while there will be A LOT less than your counterparts at a civilian institution. You will have to put up with a lot more challenges than your friends going to State U. Your freedoms will be a lot more limited, as you live the miltary lifestyle 24/7 while you are there. More will be expected of you daily, with harsh consequences if you fail to keep up. The choice is yours to make that "cost / benefit" analysis of your college experience. If you feel up to these challenges, relish them coming on, or just feel that you'll push through them to get to the prize at the end, GO FOR IT!
2) You may not get that "Top Gun" dream you've been wanting (or whatever the "dream" may be). The odds are tough against it. You have a better SHOT at STARTING down the path towards it, but there are no garauntees on your follow on career no matter the commisioning source. Now, ROTC and OCS won't garuantee that slot for your dream either, and may be even tougher odds to get there. What you SHOULD consider is "will the AFA (or ROTC, or OCS) be worth it if I can't have that dream job? Will having to serve 5 years minimum in teh miltiart in a time of war be worth it?" The military will DEMAND you pay them back for the opportunities they have given you in college. It is up to you if doing something else besides that "cool" job you've dreamt about since childhood is worth it.
Now, I'm NOT going to tell you which you should choose. YOU will have to be the ones to balance these decisions and make that final answer for YOURSELF. I'm sure I've missed a ton that could and should be added to either list (and I'm also sure that some won't agree with my logic, but I get dissappointed in some parents who should know better when they suggest "Motives" for them.) And, quite frankly, I WON'T go into the "other topic" about how you should prepare yourself for the REAL GOAL: your career as an Officer defending this country and what that should mean to you, as this thread is narrowly focused on just the pros and cons of the means to get there.
I will end with this: I hope you potential candidates considering the Service Academies (or ROTC, or OCS) can get past the hostile tone displayed by some here (and I will freely admit I've been guilty of it myself! And am quite embarrassed to be dragged down into it), and remember that those displaying those "attitudes" here are actually rather silly -- they are argueing over YOUR life, and YOUR decisions. Their advise and concerns are understandable, but ultimately, none of us speaking the loudest here will be with you holding your hand while you go through BCT and the SA experience; your fellow cadets are there for that. And quite frankly, they have behaved quite better on this thread than us parents. I guess that is another for the "pro" column: you learn how to be mature on the internet better than your parents!
PS. forgive the "manifesto" length of this post, but hopefully it cleared the air, made up for some bad behaviour by us parents, and put us back on track... Bullet
OK, time to end the petty bickering on this thread and get it back on track. But first off, I want to apologize to all the potential future candidates out there who have had to witness some rather heated debates from people with two different perspectives on the issue. One one hand, you have parents of current cadets very sensitive to anything that may seem like dig against an academy education or motives to attend (the "we are ALL proud of you for getting into this fine institution" point of view). On the other, you have the opinions of some former and current military officers who have asked you to look beyond the academy experience and set your goals to be the best officer you can be, no matter what the military asks of you (the "we hope you will join us and live the core value of Service before Self" point of view). Niether is wrong, they are just looking at the same portrait from different angles. and like an art piece, everyone will have different perspectives.
BUT, this is a thread on the Pros and Cons of the academy, so I will give you My take on what I think the value and costs are for attending this fine institutuion.
(Now: a particular crowd will probably get on here in a tizzy complaining how I've never been there, and therefore have NO right to speak my mind. I'm a little dissapointed in their attitudes and accusations that those who haven't been there are just playing a "sour grapes" game. However, they ARE correct in that my experience in the life at the academy is nil. But, my experience in the active duty is just a tad more than them or the cadets they blindly and innaccurately suggest should be the only ones to post here. (and I feel they only suggested it because they disagree or were upset by what was presented). But they simply forgot that in this country, EVERYONE is entitled to their opinions, whether they agree with them or not)
You'll get a lot more value listening to EVERYONE's opinions, the parents who had to help and support with the process of getting into a Service Academy, the cadets who are there or have been there, and the folks with current or past military experience. While each will have different perspectives, ALL have points that you will need to consider as you make what is probably the biggest decision in your life.
To be fair, my perspective will mostly relate to "how does the Academy get you ready for Active Duty. But, I can add some other OPINIONS as well on other matters. Feel free to do with my list as you like (and I'm sure some won't even bother or have already put myself and Pima on thier "ignore" list), but like most on this forum, I spending my time here to give you a piece of my mind that is driven by my heart...
So here it goes:
Pros:
1) You'll all be preparing to serve your country as officers. There are several routes to do this, but NONE can compare to the leadership lab experience you will be getting at a SA. ROTC; you'll have half a day of classes and some drill each week for your four year college experience, plus one summer seminar for either 4 or 6 weeks, and a little extra opportunites for a leadership position as a Junior and Senior. This will give you limited time towards developing your leadership skills that will be crucial when you first pin on those butter bars. OCS: NO leadership development (of the military kind) while in college. You go to a "Leadership boot camp" after you've graduated. The SAs: While you are there, EVERYDAY is a leadership lab (or "opportunity"). You will be given ample opportunity to hone and develop those skills through the daily challenges you will face. IMO, Academy gradutes ARE MUCH better prepared to meet the leadership challenges you will face as a 2d Lt right off the bat, the other Lts who came into the active forces through other means will have to play catch up.
2) A world-class education at one of the nation's top universities, with some of the finest facilities avaialble at the undergraduate level. Included will be instructors and professors who will ACTUALLY CARE about you and will be there for you for that extra push or help when you need it. You WON'T be a number in some huge lecture hall that does tend to happen in civilian institutions. These instructors WANT you to succeed, they have an extra duty in their hearts to make the best generation of future officers they can (they know the consequences if they fail).
3) Opportunities for extra-curricular activities and "outside of the class room learning experiences" that you could NEVER get at any civilian institution. HNeedle's F-22 sim ride is a PERFECT example of this (and something I'm VERY jealous of!
). How many other universities have flying clubs, jump clubs, rifile clubs and on and on and on (if you have an interest, they have a club for it. Better yet, try something new and LEARN from it). 4) INSTANT life-long friends and people you would fall on a sword for if they needed it. You will share a common experience with cadets just like you, and the challenges you will face will create bonds that can't be broken. You will immediately "fit in", something many students at "other" institutions have a hard time finding. The can get lost as a tiny number in a big situation.
5) A free education. Yes, I'll even bring this heated topic up. You SHOULD graduate with not only NO debts, be maybe even a little extra in your pocket. (I can talk to you all about how to make some smart financial decisions early in your careers on a separate thread, if your interested). Not many new graduates will be in the same boat; even the ones will full rides to some great institutions.
6) If you want to fly as your career, the AFA basically garauntees you'll get to take a shot at it by giving you a UPT (pilot training) slot if your graduate medically qualified and not in trouble. Pilot slots through ROTC and OCS are limited and very competitive. How well you do there AFTER the AFA is up to you, but historically the Academy Grads do better at UPT because they are used to the pressures and have more opportunities to fly while in school .
CONS:
1) All those "pros" above come at a cost. Your free time while there will be A LOT less than your counterparts at a civilian institution. You will have to put up with a lot more challenges than your friends going to State U. Your freedoms will be a lot more limited, as you live the miltary lifestyle 24/7 while you are there. More will be expected of you daily, with harsh consequences if you fail to keep up. The choice is yours to make that "cost / benefit" analysis of your college experience. If you feel up to these challenges, relish them coming on, or just feel that you'll push through them to get to the prize at the end, GO FOR IT!
2) You may not get that "Top Gun" dream you've been wanting (or whatever the "dream" may be). The odds are tough against it. You have a better SHOT at STARTING down the path towards it, but there are no garauntees on your follow on career no matter the commisioning source. Now, ROTC and OCS won't garuantee that slot for your dream either, and may be even tougher odds to get there. What you SHOULD consider is "will the AFA (or ROTC, or OCS) be worth it if I can't have that dream job? Will having to serve 5 years minimum in teh miltiart in a time of war be worth it?" The military will DEMAND you pay them back for the opportunities they have given you in college. It is up to you if doing something else besides that "cool" job you've dreamt about since childhood is worth it.
Now, I'm NOT going to tell you which you should choose. YOU will have to be the ones to balance these decisions and make that final answer for YOURSELF. I'm sure I've missed a ton that could and should be added to either list (and I'm also sure that some won't agree with my logic, but I get dissappointed in some parents who should know better when they suggest "Motives" for them.) And, quite frankly, I WON'T go into the "other topic" about how you should prepare yourself for the REAL GOAL: your career as an Officer defending this country and what that should mean to you, as this thread is narrowly focused on just the pros and cons of the means to get there.
I will end with this: I hope you potential candidates considering the Service Academies (or ROTC, or OCS) can get past the hostile tone displayed by some here (and I will freely admit I've been guilty of it myself! And am quite embarrassed to be dragged down into it), and remember that those displaying those "attitudes" here are actually rather silly -- they are argueing over YOUR life, and YOUR decisions. Their advise and concerns are understandable, but ultimately, none of us speaking the loudest here will be with you holding your hand while you go through BCT and the SA experience; your fellow cadets are there for that. And quite frankly, they have behaved quite better on this thread than us parents. I guess that is another for the "pro" column: you learn how to be mature on the internet better than your parents!
PS. forgive the "manifesto" length of this post, but hopefully it cleared the air, made up for some bad behaviour by us parents, and put us back on track... Bullet
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for some of us, that isnt a con. It is one of the reasons why I want to attend the AFA. I do not want to go to a party college. I like to get down to work and keep busy.
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same here
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lol you say that now!
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HAHAHA, I was JUST ABOUT to say that....thank you Cad.
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Haha!
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same here.
I'm sure I'll regret this later on UNLIMITED times (we all complain), but it's for the best. At least what I think it's best.
raimius
15-Year Member
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- Jun 9, 2006
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Haha...
Yes, hard work and challenge was one of my reasons.
Have you ever gone on a long distance run? About 3/4 through, does it still seem like the greatest idea? (You're probably feeling tired, sore, hungry, and just spent.) Some days...heck, some WEEKS, are like that. Sometimes the work and the challenges grind you down.
...but seeing the end is a really good feeling. Looking back at a race well-ran is even better.
Yes, hard work and challenge was one of my reasons.
Have you ever gone on a long distance run? About 3/4 through, does it still seem like the greatest idea? (You're probably feeling tired, sore, hungry, and just spent.) Some days...heck, some WEEKS, are like that. Sometimes the work and the challenges grind you down.
...but seeing the end is a really good feeling. Looking back at a race well-ran is even better.
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- 374
Raimius, well put. It's better to start off with an positive mind, that way you get farther in your run. If you start off running knowing that you will hate it 3/4 through, you'll never run.
Christcorp
15-Year Member
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- May 21, 2008
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I don't think that anyone here really has anything to worry about. The fact that you are visiting this forum and others, shows that you are not only really wanting the academy (It's not your 4th safety school); plus you truly want to know what it's like. You all will be prepared. Best of luck. mike.;l
hornetguy
15-Year Member
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LMAO! O, trust me, you will be "[getting] down to work and [keeping] busy" for four full years, with little rest to show for it! But, so worth it, and making my life better every day.