ROTC process education needed.

gokings814 said:
Coach, I think Pima is saying that Princeton does not have a ROTC program on campus, but the Rutgers program allows Princeton students to enroll in their program, cooperatively. While this can work, it is logistically more difficult for a cadet as now travel time is involved and there may or may not be PT programs on their own campus.
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Absolutely! A Princeton student will travel to Rutgers for PT and LLAB as a ROTC cadet/mid. That means for academics they go to Princeton, but will drive 20 miles for PT and LLAB weekly for ROTC.
~ I am from Jersey. Rte 130/1 can be a bumper to bumper issue. If PT is at 6:00 am, they will need to leave by 5:30. If LLAB ends at 3:00 pm it can mean that they will not be back at their dorm before 4 pm. It will also impact their class schedule on those days. PT ends at 7:00, get back at 8, than 1st class will be 9. LLAB at 2, than theoretically their last class would be at 12 to make it to Rutgers for 2.
~ Same is true for Columbia students going xtown. Harvard and Yale going to MIT. MIT is the host det.
~ xtown needs to be placed into the equation.

Typically Ivies are not what is called a "host" detachment. There are high tier colleges like UNCCH, UVA and Notre Dame that are host dets., thus ROTC PT/LLAB will be held on campus.

Coach62 said:
He has a 35 in both math and science and only one 33, I think that was reading? So I'm not sure how that average works out.
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The way it works for composite is they take the 4 components and avg the score. You are missing 1 component, which was probably a 33, thus he has a 34.

You should plow forward. I know reading some of these posts may have been a WOW moment, and maybe even an OMG moment. Nobody impo is trying to take away from the great things he has accomplished, but many of us also have walked the path and are trying to illuminate you why this might be more difficult than you assume.

Regarding the cgpa.
My kids were military brats, we moved during their HS years. My eldest was AP/Jump start in NC. APs were 6.0 weighted. His wcgpa was recalculated by not only the colleges, but SA and AFROTC.
~ I know this because during an interview they flat out said, we do not use a scale higher than 4.5 for weighted. He graduated Magna Cum Laude from HS, top 7%.
DD was in the Cambridge Program (AICE), it is a "test in" program. I am thinking it is akin to your Laureate program. She too graduated Magna and top 7%. 4.5 was the highest wcgpa anyone could obtain. She went to HS in NC and VA.
DS2 did not do a direct program, he took all APs though as a senior. (Physics, Stats, Euro, Spanish and Lit. his easy courses were computer oriented). He went to VA only. 4.5 was as high as any student could achieve.

My point is to illustrate that there are over 2K HS in this nation. Colleges ask for a sealed transcript because typically it will include a school profile. That includes the weight for their AP/IB/AICE programs.
~It also includes:
~~ % that take AP/IB/AICE
~~ % that go Ivy vs 4 yr vs 2 yr
~~ Scale for grading. A school that uses 7 pt for A means that a 92 is a B. 84 is a C. A school, like my DDs can use a college system. A 92 on a 4.0 scale would be a 3.68. The kid from a 7 point scale with a 92 on a 7 pt scale would be 3.6
~~ Median BEST sitting for the school. In Fairfax, 1350 is the avg best sitting, not superscore. That is @30/31 composite. I get his score is higher, but the key word is best sitting.
~~ % that are National Merit Semi Finalists. That comes from the student PSAT scores that they take their junior year.

Finally, I think you get it. Now, he needs to spend this weekend filling out the ROTC applications so he can have that plan B in place. If he buckles down, maybe he will be board ready before Thanksgiving.
~ But he also should be prepared to contact the PMS (interviewer) at one of his colleges to set up an appointment.
~~ Under no certain terms should you do this as far as I am concerned (opinion).
 
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DD is in same boat as OP's DS. NROTC process a little befuddling for us as a family with no military experience. DD has school list but order changes daily; each school has pros and cons. Unfortunately, strongest NROTC programs don't necessarily align with schools which might be best fit for her in other ways.

We are curious how other families make these decisions. Should strength of NROTC program outweigh other aspects of educational experience?
 
Coach62 said:
Is there one single good source of ROTC scholarship info that lists schools, differences between the services, etc.? All I've been able to find is what each service has listed, some sites are better than others.

I'm just trying to help my son out as his plate is pretty full. He already has an LOA from Navy, but we need a plan B & C as they say.

Please don't take this wrong but he has Ivy League quality stats. 34 ACT, 5.7 GPA, etc. So I'd like a top notch Ivy League quality school. If anyone has a list of the top schools I'd really appreciate that as well.

Thanks a ton. Between sports and his course load he literally goes about 14+ hours a day so I'm just trying to do some basic research to help him out.
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I think it all depends on what your son wants to major in. With his grades he might want to look at Rice or Vandy.

I would also suggest talking with anyone current and past who were in the units at those schools.
 
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Ted&Gladys said:
DD is in same boat as OP's DS. NROTC process a little befuddling for us as a family with no military experience. DD has school list but order changes daily; each school has pros and cons. Unfortunately, strongest NROTC programs don't necessarily align with schools which might be best fit for her in other ways.

We are curious how other families make these decisions. Should strength of NROTC program outweigh other aspects of educational experience?
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How in the world do you assess the strength of an NROTC program from afar? They might have some different training opportunities if they are nearby a Fort or Naval Base but as far as I can tell that's about it. They all go through the same curriculum. The end result is the same - one commissions as an officer in the US Navy or Marines. Have your son attend a school that's a good fit for him academically and socially and the rest will fall into place. He's more like to succeed in NROTC if he enjoys and is succeeding in the other parts of college.
 
+1 to kinnem, though it sounds as if she will be attending USNA.
 
When we refer to strength of NROTC program, we are referring to size, reputation, and status as a host v. affiliate. Every college applicant has to weigh the pros and cons at each school and evaluating NROTC adds another layer of complexity. DD is just asking herself questions such as "Does logistical inconvenience of traveling from affiliate to host outweigh other aspects that make that university attractive?" These are trade-offs she will need to figure out for herself. We completely agree that she will success best where she is happiest, but 17-year olds are known to regularly change their mind about what makes them happy ;).
 
Ted&Gladys said:
When we refer to strength of NROTC program, we are referring to size, reputation, and status as a host v. affiliate. Every college applicant has to weigh the pros and cons at each school and evaluating NROTC adds another layer of complexity. DD is just asking herself questions such as "Does logistical inconvenience of traveling from affiliate to host outweigh other aspects that make that university attractive?" These are trade-offs she will need to figure out for herself. We completely agree that she will success best where she is happiest, but 17-year olds are known to regularly change their mind about what makes them happy ;).
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I have a dd. We had these same questions. So many factors! If she had to travel to another school we weighed in the weather, the mileage, her course load, her sport schedule....

We received the best info visiting the campus and speaking directly to Commander of the unit or his designee. Since my dd is in njrotc many of the graduated cadets stay in touch.

You need to do some recon on the professors of X department and guage if they are supportive. Same goes with the Unit Commander. We are in the process and I was stressing over it.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
 
Ted&Gladys said:
When we refer to strength of NROTC program, we are referring to size, reputation, and status as a host v. affiliate. Every college applicant has to weigh the pros and cons at each school and evaluating NROTC adds another layer of complexity. DD is just asking herself questions such as "Does logistical inconvenience of traveling from affiliate to host outweigh other aspects that make that university attractive?" These are trade-offs she will need to figure out for herself. We completely agree that she will success best where she is happiest, but 17-year olds are known to regularly change their mind about what makes them happy ;).
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DS is an MSIV and is at a crosstown school...it hasn't been a huge problem. I'm sure there are situations where it is very inconvenient, but your DD won't be the first or only to commute, the cadets/mids usually figure this out pretty quickly...so pick the school with the best major for your DD and the right social fit and it should work out.
 
Thank you, No1Fanof2 and nofodad. We have zero experience with SA, ROTC programs, etc, and it's nice to know that our questions aren't crazy! DD has already done research on programs and spoken with Commanders, but a little more recon on logistics of commute and support from her profs is in order. We'll make sure she takes your advice. The only university she is "in love" with is USNA; she has an LOA, so hopefully there will be a "happily ever after" ending pending a nomination and no injuries. However, we've read enough on this forum to know that it is very important to be "in love" with plans B, C, D, etc. In her case, the schools assigned to spots B and C (and D, if we're honest) keep shuffling!
 
Jumping in here with a little info on a few of the elites.
Harvard/MIT: Army, Navy, AF host.
Yale: Navy and AF host. Army crosstowns.
Princeton: Army hosts. Navy and AF crosstown to Rutgers.
Stanford: all crosstown. Army at Santa Clara. AF at San Jose State. Navy at Cal.
JMHO, but crosstowning is a recipe for failure. Visit the schools, ask about crosstown graduation rates. Anyone familiar with the Bay Area understands how ludicrous commuting from Stanford to Cal 3 days a week is.
Princeton to Rutgers is just as challenging. Can't speak to the AF unit there, but the Navy expects commuting 4 days a week.
OS
 
Oldsalt said:
Jumping in here with a little info on a few of the elites.
Harvard/MIT: Army, Navy, AF host.
Yale: Navy and AF host. Army crosstowns.
Princeton: Army hosts. Navy and AF crosstown to Rutgers.
Stanford: all crosstown. Army at Santa Clara. AF at San Jose State. Navy at Cal.
JMHO, but crosstowning is a recipe for failure. Visit the schools, ask about crosstown graduation rates. Anyone familiar with the Bay Area understands how ludicrous commuting from Stanford to Cal 3 days a week is.
Princeton to Rutgers is just as challenging. Can't speak to the AF unit there, but the Navy expects commuting 4 days a week.
OS
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Recipe for failure? I can't say I agree. Like so many things in ROTC-ville it is battalion specific. Your DD or DS will not be left adrift on their own. My DS' situation freshman year, MSIIIs organized carpools to the host school it was one of their leadership "opportunities." When he was MSI there was an MS class that met at his school, PT was once a week at his school and twice a week at the host school. I believe this is still the case but as an MSIV he is at the host school daily. He has a car and drives other cadets who do not have vehicles. Be careful you don't over think this whole crosstown thing...it can work quite nicely. I suppose the downside is that you do not have the luxury of access to cadre if you are crosstown, but most communication occurs via e-mail, you don't have to be there in person. The upside? Every day after PT, RC or 10 miler the members of my son's company had breakfast together back on campus and it leads to an opportunity for friendships and bonding. It's not all bad. BTW DS' battalion is in a major metropolitan area notorious for traffic and....somehow...it still works.
 
Nofodad,
I was talking specify about HYPSM.
I agree, there are many successful crosstown arrangements. Army ROTC at Princeton hosts for a number of successful CT programs. AF at Yale is the same. The point I was trying to make, if you plan to attend one of these school, ask a ton of questions. How many contracted cadets/mids commute? How many have you commissioned? Can I talk to one?

Yale and Princeton brought back NROTC at the same time. The Holy Cross unit (original Yale host) realized that to be successful they had eliminate travel for the mids. They had the staff drive back and forth, not the mids. Last year the Yale unit went over 40 mids and became a host unit.
Princeton stuck by its guns, mids will commute 4 mornings a week. They can't schedule anything at Princeton before 10 or 11 on those days. If you are familiar with how Princeton organizes their class schedule, it essentially eliminated STEM majors!?!
Last year Princeton had one MIDN.
I am not sure of the success of the Non-Navy units at Stanford. Army at Yale only has two cadets as of last year.
JMHO,
OS
 
Oldsalt said:
Nofodad,
I was talking specify about HYPSM.
Army ROTC at Princeton hosts for a number of successful CT programs.
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The AROTC Tiger Battalion at Princeton consists of cadets from Princeton , TCNJ, Rowen and Rider. At least at Princeton there are no crosstown cadets in the unit. My DS knows the lone NROTC cadet who had to commute to Rutgers and it about killed him. He was allowed to do PT with the Princeton AROTC group from time to time. On the upside seniors are getting Princeton credit for their required course this semester for the first time since it is open to all PU students and taught by the PMs and a professor from the Woodrow Wilson School.
 
Jocomom,
You are making my point. Princeton is the host unit for all those schools. Army ROTC has the instructors commute instead of the cadets. Navy at Princeton chooses to make the mids commute. One process is successful, the other a failure.
OS
 
gokings814 said:
We ALL understand that AP and IB classes get an extra weighted point (5.0) on the 4 point scale. Based on this how do you get an average that exceeds 5.0? If you take all AP classes and ace all of them, you would have a 5.0 GPA on a 4 point scale.
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I'm really not sure, I guess I'll have to look into that. I just know the school itself is a 4.0 scale and he has a 5.7 GPA.

I appreciate all the input. Between these posts and a few PM's people have sent I've really learned a ton.

As to the Ivy League schools, I'm not naive enough to think he's a shoe-in for Harvard, but I do think if he applied to all of them he has a good chance of getting into at least one.
 
our schools locally are on a 6.0 scale. 4.0 for normal courses, up to 5.0 for Honors courses, and up to 6.0 for AP courses. I expect that's the story here.
 
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Coach62 said:
he has Ivy League quality stats. 34 ACT, 5.7 GPA, etc. So I'd like a top notch Ivy League quality school.
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About those high test scores...here's something to ruminate about for those with impressive SAT/ACT scores.

My DD hung out with a friend this past summer she nicknamed Mr. 24/36 because he 100% aced the SAT and ACT. WOW!

She said he was very well rounded in addition to his academics, but strangely enough NOT admitted to Harvard, his number one choice. He did get accepted to Yale to study law. (He was not applying for a ROTC or academy scholarship.)

So of course, my DD's "Plan C" now includes Yale so she can visit Mr. 24/36 who got rejected from Harvard. ;)
 
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