ROTC question re Educational Delay

P

patesq

5-Year Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
34
The basic question is: is there a time limit for an educational delay for students that have graduated from a ROTC program with their undergraduate degrees? I have searched the internet for hours and discussed with a Navy ROTC representative who told me there was no such thing as an educational delay, all to no avail.

The background: DS is a rising senior in HS and has decided he wants to study biomedical engineering and then go into an MD/PhD program. His end goal is to work with prosthetics - design and implantation. He looked into the Naval Academy for some time but could not find any way to proceed to his desired graduate program - he could do either med school or a grad degree in engineering but not the dual degree. One major benefit of doing the degrees together is that all of the MD/PhD programs he is interested in are fully funded so no debt incurred. But, the program is 7-8 years and I can't find any information about any time limits for an educational delay.

We are well aware that educational delays are competitive and there is no guarantee. He is a very strong student - currently valedictorian in a very competitive school, taking every advanced/AP class he can, doing very well on standardized tests, has many ECs in athletics (just earned a silver medal in the Junior Olympics!) and volunteer work - so we are optimistic that he can get into the program. He wants to serve his country and his chosen field of prosthetics would seem to be of benefit to the military - we haven't been able to determine whether an ed delay of 7 - 8 years would be possible. His first choice school for undergrad is Johns Hopkins which offers Army ROTC (we'll discuss overcoming my family's Navy history another time - this would make for some interesting Army-Navy games in view of my dad, sister, grandfathers, great-grandfather, cousins, aunts and uncles having served in the Navy) and, while no one is a slam dunk to get into Hopkins, he has a decent chance. We would appreciate any info as to whether this length of delay would be considered.

Thanks,

Kim
 
We aren't in the business of investing in 8 years of education to produce an officer with such a narrow expertise. We are in the business of producing young leaders with a 4 year degree who can enter our organization as mid-level managers. There is a small handful of officers who we will invest a couple extra years to make into a doctor or lawyer. If your son wants to pursue the path you outline, I would suggest steering clear of ROTC, have him earn his degree and then pursue a direct commission when he earns his advanced degree. If he is sure he wants to be an Officer in the near future he should enroll in ROTC and get his commission and see where it takes him. He should apply for ed delay or ADSO for grad school in three years if he is still sure he wants to be a doc. If he gets ed delay great. If not, he requests medical services branch and looks for continuing education while serving as a young officer, or chooses to fullfil his obligation in the Guard or Reserve while attending grad school. These options are Army ROTC options. Not sure if the other branches have similar paths.
 
Thanks for the input but the path you outlined just isn't an option - we can't afford Johns Hopkins. Hopkins offers essentially no merit scholarships so ROTC would be the only option for him to attend. He will need to decide how he wants to proceed but he needs to know if his desired path is even possible. I've searched but can't find anything about how long of an educational delay can be granted. I have found 3 years for law school and 4 years for medical school but haven't been able to find information for the time for a PhD.

I may not have been clear but there would be no financial investment on the part of the military for the MD/PhD - that program is entirely funded by the school/NIH and even includes a stipend for living expenses. The military would not shell out a dime for those degrees but would have them available to benefit from.

Your response confused me because I know the military has invested a ton of money for my uncle to become, of all things, a hand expert. They paid for his education at the Academy, paid for him to go directly to Harvard Med School and then (and I'm not a medical person so am not clear on the details of an advanced narrow medical specialty) even more education to become a hand expert. I do know that there was a ton of education involved. He is also a flight surgeon so even more training there. This was the Navy so maybe the other branches are more interested in a highly educated doctor, especially when they don't have to pay for his med school/grad school.

I guess what I'm puzzled by is that the military will get the time it's due - wouldn't it be more valuable to have a doctor that can be used as a normal, every day doctor but can also be used for his expertise in prosthetics, something quite a few military folks are needing these days?
 
I have had a bunch of friends commission into the Medical Corps as Doctors and Dentists from USNA and ROTC. Some commissioned directly to the Medical Corps and others did following tours as SWOs or other career fields. It is not easy, very few are allowed to, and there are no guarantees. I am not well versed on the ROTC side of how that works, but I am sure someone on here can speak to that. If your son wants to become a doctor and has no desire to serve as an unrestrictred line officer in the Navy (pilot, SWO, subs, etc) then I would advise him to look at other options and then apply for a commission after his schooling. Yes, he can commission into the Medical Corps and there are different options for attending medical school such as USHSS or civilian schools. What the Navy pays for varies per the different programs. The problem is your son is set on a very narrow path that has no guarantees. If he is accepted into the Medical Corps he would spend 4 years as a med student and then just like service selection and duty location, "the needs of the military" are first and foremost what they need. The number of billets available for each speciality varies from year group to year group, so there are no guarantees. I am guessing the gentlemen you know who was commissioned via West Point, went to med school and then became an Orthopedic Surgeon or something along those lines. As he become more senior he probably became a hand specialist, but guessing that is not something that happened day one for him. It took years of schooling, time in service, and he occurred additional obligations each step along the way. The bottom line is there are no guarantees he will get to become a doctor. If he is ok with flying planes, driving ships and subs or being a SEAL then by all means pursue the ROTC/USNA paths.
 
OK...let's think about this...let's just use Army ROTC as an example, since I know this branch. We would pay for 4 years of college, commission your son, and then say see you in 4 or 5 years when you get done with your PHD. Or, we can post a job opening and hire and direct commission someone who has the expertise we need right now. Additionally, the Army is usually going to pay for your advanced schooling, and expect you to continue to train as an Officer while you are in your advanced schooling.

I think your answer is in the contract your son will sign. That contract will not guarantee advanced schooling. It mentions it as a possibility, but expects a graduate to accept a commission and serve. Here's a link to the contract.
http://goldenknightbattalion.wordpress.com/2010/08/06/the-contract/ Take a look at Paragraph 1.e. of the scholarship contract which pertains to ed delay. No time limit stated, but I would contend that the Army is not going to wait 4 years for your son to earn his PHD, and he certainly needs to be prepared to serve first if his request is denied.
 
I am NOT an expert, but my son has a fellow cadet at VMI, currently a NROTC scholarship MIDN, interested in DR path - the navy has a program called HPSP. This MIDN, set to graduate in 2013 from VMI, is looking at
POSSBLY, getting deferred to payback these first years, while he attends medical school. I know that a Dr. currently at Bethesda, knew about the program and indicated about 15 ROTC graduates annually are sent to medical school.
This current MIDN I know, obilgated to continue doing what all the other 4 yr scholarship MIDN do - Naval science class, FX's, and 1st class summer cruise. I do know that he must obtain admission to medical school on his own, and then I would assume apply to participate in this other program (medical - thus pushing his payback of yrs already owed down the road)

This does NOT address your son's further speciality, but I give this info hoping that the HPSP gives you another avenue to investigate for information.
-larry's mom
 
Thanks for the link to HPSP - that isn't what he would use because he doesn't need a scholarship or any investment from the Army beyond ROTC but I did find it interesting for a couple of reasons. Here is what it covers:

FULL-TUITION SCHOLARSHIP, PLUS A $20,000 SIGN-ON BONUS
We will pay 100 percent of your tuition, plus we will also pay for required books, equipment and most academic fees. Qualifying medical and dental students are also eligible to receive a $20,000 sign-on bonus.

FINANCIAL INCENTIVES
As you attend school, you'll receive a monthly stipend of more than $2,000. During breaks, you'll receive officer's pay while you train as part of our health care team.

Looking at tuition at some of the schools DS is interested in, tuition alone for the 4 years will be in the $200k range. When you add in the signing bonus and stipend, that brings it to $300k. It seems to me the Army would be getting quite a deal to get a doctor who also has a PhD (not a specialization but additional education) at no cost to them.

We understand that there is no guarantee he would be granted an educational delay. There isn't any guarantee he will get into the MD/PhD program. He will have to decide which path he wants to take. We are trying to figure out what the options are so he can make an educated decision. If there is a maximum time limit on an educational delay, we need to know that now so he can factor that into his decision.

I did find a link on the HPSP page to find a ROTC advisor and there is one about 20 minutes away so that is very helpful. We will try to get in touch with them and see if they know if there are any limits to the length of an educational delay.
 
Nothing any poster says here will change your mind regarding chancing or it sounds like the Army gets a good deal.

However, one thing to understand is he will owe many yrs to the military. They can send him to Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, wherever they want because they own him. Is he ready for that commitment? He maybe 40+ before he can leave the military. I did not read he wants to be in the Army, I read family is Navy, and education price is an issue. I am sure he wants the Army because otherwise he would go Navy or AF, but the point is how much does he want to serve...is he willing to serve until he is in his mid-30's, early 40's? Do you or him assume he can walk after 5, 8, 11 yrs? Big hint here if he owes time and accepts a bonus, promotion, PCS or military education, the clock extends. It is concurrent, but you still owe more time. 10 yrs quickly turns to 20.

As far as you knowing that it occurs because your uncle did it through the Navy, I am going to guess since he is your uncle, he is in his 60's. The military that existed 15 yrs ago is not the military that exists today regarding the medical world. When Bullet entered in 88, every hospital had ER, surgery and maternity wards. Not anymore. Every doc was an AD military member, not anymore, now they have contracted civilian docs. Your uncle was a flight doc, that is probably the most expensive personnel asset in the military, that is why they invested in him. He had a flight slot too in a unique way, his job was to make sure fliers were healthy, so they could complete the mission. I know in the AF our flt docs have very unique degrees, and not only are they flt docs for the base, but many are also do TDY's for NASA too. You can't compare his generation with Bullet's generation, Bullet's to the current generation, but most importantly the current to the next generation.

ROTC is not a cake walk. Academic ability is not the only aspect.

I mean this with true sincerity, but you are putting the cart before the horse. He can get into ROTC and despise it. He can get in and fall in love with infantry and decide med school is not his goal. There are going to be so many hurdles he will have to overcome in his college yrs as a ROTC cadet that you can't even fathom at this point.

Several of us had the honor to pin on our children's butter bars only a few short weeks ago. You know what we regretted? It wasn't planning out the what ifs when they were in hs. It was not embracing the moments that they were in hs. Don't wish your life away. Live for today, because come next Aug. that bedroom will be empty and your home is now going to become his parents home. His home will be wherever he goes off into the world.
 
Pima said:
Nothing any poster says here will change your mind regarding chancing or it sounds like the Army gets a good deal.

However, one thing to understand is he will owe many yrs to the military. They can send him to Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, wherever they want because they own him. Is he ready for that commitment? He maybe 40+ before he can leave the military.

ROTC is not a cake walk. Academic ability is not the only aspect.
Click to expand...

Amen to the above. Plus make sure he gets by the first semestor of college. Do well in ROTC...etc. Stay out of trouble. I know of a few kids top in their class in high school that did not fare well in college. Maybe you are looking a little too forward in time. The dream at 16 may not be the dream at 20 or 22. There must be Plan B, C Etc... If this happens then... or ....

Life is like a box of chocolates.. You never know what you will get.

Run Forest Run...
 
patesq said:
The basic question is: is there a time limit for an educational delay for students that have graduated from a ROTC program with their undergraduate degrees? I have searched the internet for hours and discussed with a Navy ROTC representative who told me there was no such thing as an educational delay, all to no avail.

The background: DS is a rising senior in HS and has decided he wants to study biomedical engineering and then go into an MD/PhD program. His end goal is to work with prosthetics - design and implantation. He looked into the Naval Academy for some time but could not find any way to proceed to his desired graduate program - he could do either med school or a grad degree in engineering but not the dual degree. One major benefit of doing the degrees together is that all of the MD/PhD programs he is interested in are fully funded so no debt incurred. But, the program is 7-8 years and I can't find any information about any time limits for an educational delay.

We are well aware that educational delays are competitive and there is no guarantee. He is a very strong student - currently valedictorian in a very competitive school, taking every advanced/AP class he can, doing very well on standardized tests, has many ECs in athletics (just earned a silver medal in the Junior Olympics!) and volunteer work - so we are optimistic that he can get into the program. He wants to serve his country and his chosen field of prosthetics would seem to be of benefit to the military - we haven't been able to determine whether an ed delay of 7 - 8 years would be possible. His first choice school for undergrad is Johns Hopkins which offers Army ROTC (we'll discuss overcoming my family's Navy history another time - this would make for some interesting Army-Navy games in view of my dad, sister, grandfathers, great-grandfather, cousins, aunts and uncles having served in the Navy) and, while no one is a slam dunk to get into Hopkins, he has a decent chance. We would appreciate any info as to whether this length of delay would be considered.

Thanks,

Kim
Click to expand...

Why the strong urge to go to Johns Hopkins? While it is a fine medical school, going there for undergrad will not increase or give him an advantage in the application process for his MD.

Also MD/PhD is a very very hard program. I am not saying your son isn't up to it but please leave some options open because four years of college can change a lot of goals and desires. If he does not get into med school you have to realize that he WILL be re-branched and probably with the needs of the army in mind.

Keep in mind that thinking about a specialty this young could mean that one is falling into the trap of over anticipating too much too far ahead. Don't get me wrong, goals are integral in forming success for the future but getting into med school and achieving the USMLE step 1 scores needed for the tough orthopedic residency might be pushing it when undergrad hasn't even started yet.

I would avoid ROTC at this point and if all his plans eventually fall into place direct commission into the military at a later date. I don't think for the army there is a time limit (after acceptance and entry) as long as you are on track for your med/law degree.
 
Last edited:
medical school admission is very much a product of college GPA and MCAT score. The fact that your son graduates from, say, a well regarded state school, will NOT deter him from getting admitted into a top medical school. It's not like the world of high finance where they don't even recruit in places outside of top 10 schools. It's a myth that you need a prestigious undergrad degree to be admitted to prestigious grad program. It depends, and most don't.

Based on your description of your son, he will easily get full scholarship to a number of schools outside of the top 30 schools. (BTW: JHU DOES give merit scholarship. I know a kid who got it). For instance, do you know that University of Maryland, College Park, gives a FULL RIDE scholarship, including books and travel expenses, to about 200 (probably fewer now) top tier students (as of 2009: both in state and out of state) and inducts them into a very exclusive honor program? My S1 (the non ROTC kid) got on one of these, but he turned it down to go to his dream school as a full pay. UMD CP is a very well regarded, international renowned flag ship state university. Having this kind of education at UMD-CP will be MORE THAN SUFFICIENT to get into the world's very best medical school provided that he excels at school and scores very well in MCAT.

Another good example: University of Alabama is so hungry to attract top flight students that if the SAT is over certain number combined with high GPA or if the student is national merit finalist, it's automatically either full tuition waiver or full ride (I forget which). More examples: UVA jefferson scholarship combined with a very prestigious and exclusive ultra honor program (again full ride, but this one is much harder to get than UMD scholarship). University of North Carolina Chapel Hill has a similar program (another international renowned school). Look around, there are really good schools that will welcome your son at no cost. So, if you lose the JHU obsession, there is NO financial reason to commit to the ROTC program that sounds like a really a force fit for what he wants to do.

in short, there is no financial reason for your son to lock into the ROTC program which may not may not work out for him. The odds are, they will NOT support a continuing ed delay worth 7-8 years in addition to four years of undergrad. That's total 11-12 years of investment on their part. They will be foolish to do that. He may not get it when he is eligible for any kind of delay. he may not have all the choices and options unencumbered by the needs of the military that OWNS him. In short, nothing is for sure once he becomes a cog in a machine.

If I were you, there is no way I would suggest to my son that he takes the ROTC path with so much uncertainty when he has so many good options right now, and the finance is actually not a concern. If he is really so serious about serving the country, he can do that after he gets his education for MD/PH.D., and HE CAN DO IT ON HIS OWN TERM.

I am saying this as a parent of a S2 who got full 4 year ROTC scholarship. Becoming an officer has been his dream from the age of 2 (really, true!!!). He would have joined the Army after HS but I channeled him through the ROTC route: if you are going to do it anyway, do it in style as an officer, and oh, while you are at it, let them pay for your education. I would have never recommended that he does it as a way to pay the tuition. S2 is really into the ROTC stuff, and he spends well over 20 hours a week in college devoted to activities related to ROTC. This is not something anyone should do just for money. You have GOT to love the life style and the PROCESS of it and thrive on it, NOT just the goal and eventual outcome. He went to Fort Knox as a precursor to the overseas cultural exchange deployment program this summer, and he took to the army base life style like fish to water. He enjoys the very idea of having a life style like that. In short, he enjoys the PROCESS, not just some vague outcome and reward at the end of the tunnel.

Ask your son: other than the desire to serve the country, does he actually RELISH the idea of military training? Hard physical fitness training. Would he actually like a college life that includes 5 AM wake up call three times a week (actually, my ROTC S2 son wakes up at 5 AM five times a week). When he is taking organic chemistry (the atrocious killer of a course for pre med students) with endless lab hours and hellish tests, how is he going to keep up with the ROTC commitment? he will be taking hard courses as a pre med. How will he keep up the GPA and do better than other ROTC students who are taking an easier course load? Oh, by the way, I get the impression that any educational delay will be high competitive and your son will need to max out in every possible manner including GPA (always a HUGE component of millitary evaluation).

If you and your son think through all this, and still wants to pursue the ROTC option, good luck, and bon voyage.
 
patesq said:
DS is a rising senior in HS and has decided he wants to study biomedical engineering and then go into an MD/PhD program. His end goal is to work with prosthetics - design and implantation.
Click to expand...

Lets fast forward through the next 8 years. Your son can handle the difficulty of combining ROTC with pre-med, gets accepted for Ed Delay, gets accepted to a medical school, and succeeds in Medical School. Even then, he does not get to tell the military that he wants to work in prosthetics. They might decide that they have a greater need for trauma surgeons.

This entire plan is based on a series of increasingly difficult best case scenarios.

If this was my son I would make sure that he understood all the possible outcomes and the likelihood of each outcome. If my son was pursuing a different but equally unlikely outcome, for example becoming a star on Broadway, I would support him. If that plans works out, he is set for life in the career he wants. If it doesn't, HE gets to pick his Plan B.

In your son's scenario, the military picks his Plan B with little or no input from him. He will owe at least 8 years of Active duty if the military paid for college and grad school. Sorry that you weren't very good at molecular biology, lets see how you do at leading Infantry platoons and companies. At 34 (at the earliest), he would then be able to transition to the reserve component and start making career choices for himself.

If this was my son, I would strongly advise him against the plan that you detailed. The probability of success is too remote and the consequence of failure is too severe.
 
Lets fast forward through the next 8 years.
Click to expand...

OP's son wants to do MD/PH.D. program. That 7-8 years IN ADDITION to 4 years of college education.

All the advice on the education delay for the normal MEDICAL school of 4 years may not even apply here. I don't know this, but will the military give 7-8 years worth of an educational delay? I know the medical educational delay is already hard enough to get but at least it's in the list of things they do offer. Do they offer a MD/Ph.D. educational delay that takes 7-8 years POST college degree? Even if this is possible, he will be 30 by the time he is done with education. He will owe at least 12 years of active duty commitment plus more in reserve duty (I believe combined active and reserve: it's 2 years of service for 1 year of education), so he will be in his mid 40's before he can make his choice while still yoked to the military through the reserve program which may require him to be activated as needed. He will be in his fifties if he truly wants to have a complete freedom to make his own choices.

OP talks about the free education for MD/Ph.D. program. Not sure whether it makes much of a difference to Military. They are very rigid and go by the rule book. It's not like negotiation for a car purchase with a lot of give and take. I have the feeling that the military won't say "OK. that education is free, so we will give you 50% discount for the service commitment" Or, "OK, that education does not cost us, so we will give you 8 years of educational delay though we normally give only four". Something tells me that this is not how they operate. It's not what appears to be reasonable and rational to us the commoners and civilians, but what they do or don't based on their rule book that matters.
 
Last edited:
I did some research on this site:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-239524.html

Not all the posters agree with each other, so a definitive answer was hard to come by.

1 more year of high school, 4 years of college, and then 3 years of medical training (with many more still to go). I surmised that this would be the earliest time at which the military would approve or disapprove a request for a specific PHD program. Not sure if this is absolutely correct, but I am a really good guesser.

If there are any military doctors on the forum that want to provide definitive answers, please help us out.
 
My takeaway from S1's experience with ROTC and the experiences of those parents and enlisted and officers is that the military pretty much decides what's convenient for them and on their timetable, using their rules. It's not always fair, but that's what it is.

You may want to be a pilot and that's what you hoped and dreamed for. It might happen. Or it might not. Maybe your goal is to be a SEAL. What happens when that doesn't work out? Will you be just as happy doing something completely different for your career? Some lucky few get exactly what they want, but I wouldn't say that's the majority.

These scholarships are competitive national scholarships. Kids often post their stats here and apply and guess what? Not every amazing kid gets a scholarship. Those that do can be disenrolled from ROTC and lose them, as was my kid's experience. Some scholarships are 3 years, some kids don't get them at all.

Keep your options open, have your son apply to a wide range of schools - in-state, out of state, private. Make sure he applies to schools that won't devastate you financially and realize that the sticker price isn't reflective of financial aid and possible merit scholarships.

As a sidenote, the worst reason I can think of applying for an ROTC scholarship to fund your college is because you want to pay for college. You need to remember that making good officers is the primary objective of ROTC. Most parents - like me - were wowed by the big check our sons or daughters received. No worries about paying for college, life is good. If it doesn't work out, your son might be on the hook for either the money or the service commitment, at the discretion of the service. You might be saying - "Oh, that won't happen to my kid." Yep, I never thought it could happen to mine, either. Now he is without a career in his service and with a whopping huge debt. If we had to do it all over again, I suspect my son would have still gone ROTC but gone to a cheaper school just in case things didn't work out, ROTC-wise. The one he went to was staggeringly expensive. Johns Hopkins is, also.

Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines, the military isn't what it was just a few years ago, and however noble your kid's path, be ready for him to have a backup plan. This plan from the OP has so many what-if's, it's a precarious path and likely won't end up the way he wants.
 
Last edited:
Marist College ROTC said:
I did some research on this site:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-239524.html

Not all the posters agree with each other, so a definitive answer was hard to come by.

1 more year of high school, 4 years of college, and then 3 years of medical training (with many more still to go). I surmised that this would be the earliest time at which the military would approve or disapprove a request for a specific PHD program. Not sure if this is absolutely correct, but I am a really good guesser.

If there are any military doctors on the forum that want to provide definitive answers, please help us out.
Click to expand...

Not a doc yet but I know a decent amount regarding the time commitment.

1 year of high school
4 years of undergrad
7-8 years for the dual med school/PhD program (depending on if you get accepted first cycle your senior year of undergrad)
4-7 year residency (depending on specialty)
Externships, fellowships and internships can tack on additional time.

At max we are talking 20 years from now until said student can practice fully and that isn't even considering time commitment to the military.

I always refer people on here to student doctor forum if they have questions about the military and medicine. There are hundreds of military docs on there who post and give advice.
 
Gojira said:
My takeaway from S1's experience with ROTC and the experiences of those parents and enlisted and officers is that the military pretty much decides what's convenient for them and on their timetable, using their rules. It's not always fair, but that's what it is.

You may want to be a pilot and that's what you hoped and dreamed for. It might happen. Or it might not. Maybe your goal is to be a SEAL. What happens when that doesn't work out? Will you be just as happy doing something completely different for your career? Some lucky few get exactly what they want, but I wouldn't say that's the majority.

These scholarships are competitive national scholarships. Kids often post their stats here and apply and guess what? Not every amazing kid gets a scholarship. Those that do can be disenrolled from ROTC and lose them, as was my kid's experience. Some scholarships are 3 years, some kids don't get them at all.

Keep your options open, have your son apply to a wide range of schools - in-state, out of state, private. Make sure he applies to schools that won't devastate you financially and realize that the sticker price isn't reflective of financial aid and possible merit scholarships.

As a sidenote, the worst reason I can think of applying for an ROTC scholarship to fund your college is because you want to pay for college. You need to remember that making good officers is the primary objective of ROTC. Most parents - like me - were wowed by the big check our sons or daughters received. No worries about paying for college, life is good. If it doesn't work out, your son might be on the hook for either the money or the service commitment, at the discretion of the service. You might be saying - "Oh, that won't happen to my kid." Yep, I never thought it could happen to mine, either. Now he is without a career in his service and with a whopping huge debt. If we had to do it all over again, I suspect my son would have still gone ROTC but gone to a cheaper school just in case things didn't work out, ROTC-wise. The one he went to was staggeringly expensive. Johns Hopkins is, also.

Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines, the military isn't what it was just a few years ago, and however noble your kid's path, be ready for him to have a backup plan. This plan from the OP has so many what-if's, it's a precarious path and likely won't end up the way he wants.
Click to expand...

The above information is something every applicant should consider. There are no Guarantees, none.

The financial equation is something every applicant should think long and hard about. The list of reasons a cadet can be removed from ROTC and lose their scholarship is long. Even if a cadet abides by all the rules and terms of the contract, unforseen things can happen. A cadet could get injured during training, break a leg at Airborne school, come down with a condition that would medically disqualify them. Even though these medical type of issues would not result in having to pay back the scholarship the cadet still will need to figure out how to pay for the rest of school or have to transfer to a different, cheaper school.

I remember the PMS at my son's school when he told us "Don't spend all that tuition money on a new boat until their bars are pinned on" Very good advise.

Kids start ROTC with the best on intentions and grand plans, it does not always work out, 2 of the 4 year scholarship cadets at my sons school dropped the program before the first year was over, these were high speed kid's that came in with a lot of ambition, it just didn't work for them.

Add to this a MIP, a DUI, A speeding ticket with a fine over $250.00, or being unable to pass the APFT, or even if your grades slip below the minimum,the cadet will find themselve out of the program and owing the Army.

As was stated above, not only is the scholarship competitive but ROTC itself is highly competitive. Active Duty is not a Guarantee in AROTC, if the cadet does not score high enough on the OML they will get Reserves or National Guard. Unless the cadet finishes in the top 10% on the National Active Duty OML they are not Guaranteed their Branch, and trust me, the top 10% is not easy to get. Anything below that and your at the mercy of the Army. ED is not a guarantee by any means, again the OML will play a huge role, if ED is not granted the cadet will be branched and either serve in Active Duty or the Reserves, a cadet can request Reserves but will need to select a branch that has an opening at the Reserve unit they want to serve in.

It may sound like AROTC with a scholarship is a risk, it is, it's a risk that both the applicant and their parents need to look at very hard before applying. If your a 4 year or 3 year scholarship cadet and you start the first day of your sophomore year, the Army owns you.

Just make sure you read everything and do your research.
 
I think we probably scared patesq or gave her information overload.

Patesq,

I know you have family that served, I am willing to bet my beloved Myrtle (dog) that when they talk about the military it is with great fondness. Memories have that effect on all of us, the further away from it the better it was.

Take this time and have him really talk to them, because as others have stated this will not be anything less than 20 yrs. on a good day. If he does this than he will start getting a better look at what life was like.

EX: Oh I remember how mad your aunt was when they sent me remote for a yr and your cousins were teenagers, boy did she hate the Navy. I swear every phone call ended in a fight, and wasn't even sure if she would let me back in the house when I came back! They all laugh about it now, but trust me there were tons of tears back at the time it happened.

EX: In the 20 yrs I served, I think we had 4 Xmas's at home with the family, I know for a fact that I missed cousin Johnny's 1st birthday, cousin Janie's Communion, and cousin Jack's 1st day of school.

EX: The hardest time was when we were stationed in San Diego, I was out at sea, and your grandfather had a heart attack. It took me 4 days to get home, he was already gone, I never got the chance to say goodbye. Ex from my friends life, and not wishing it upon you, but it can happen. My Dad was diagnosed with cancer in NJ, we were in the UK, it happens alot.

These are just the common issues, add in owning homes, cars breaking down when he is gone, kids attending 8+ schools and moving every 2-3 yrs. Those fond memories now go back to how hard it really was in that life.

I would do it all over again in a heartbeat, but as a Mom with a DS now entering AD life, my memories are changing again and reality of what life was really like is back. I remember the fact that our parents never were there when I came home from the hospital with our babies. I remember getting the phone call in AK from my mother that my grandmother died and scurrying to get a flight home. I remember our DD hating us for @ 1 yr because we made her move when she was in HS (her 8th school). I had the easy hard memories, Bullet had the AD memories which are much harder. It is hard for me now because I know this will be DS's life and I will sit silently on the sidelines, hoping and praying that these issues won't exist, but fully knowing it will.

Take this time and truly decide is it he wants to serve, or is he willing to serve to pay for his education. If it is the latter, trust me the cost is way too high! Being miserable because you are in debt, but loving what you do is different than being miserable in what you do with no debt. Debt can be paid off faster than the commitment owed to the military.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top