Service Selection

[OldRetSWO]

I had forgotten about the yellow flightsuits. Bilious!

Ahem

 

[Capt MJ]

Ahem

Oh my. Just as I remembered. Brilliant photo pairing.

 

[noco]

On the note of service selection I was hoping to hear from the 23 parents/23s as to what their 23 received. Get some ! Proud of all of you! Makes me proud to be an American and thank you for leading my 25.

So my DS early selected Nuke SWO. He was quite a bit grumpy about people saying that many were drafted into this community since it was his STRONG first choice. To soften matters, the Nuke SWO officers came around and presented him a giant $15K check (signing bonus). My DS laughed and said it was Nuke SWO's advertisement for next year. On a more serious note, his roommate got his 4th choice. He had been geared up to be a marine since young childhood and got SWO. He had 15 drinks Thursday night (according to my DS) came back and broke down into tears. I think it must be really hard for some of these young adults to be told 'no.' Most of them have gone their whole lives with 'yes.' My DS said most of the people who didn't get what they wanted either had dream billets or wanted Marine. Mine is thrilled! (But he is also a 'bloom where you are planted' type of kid.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

On a more serious note, his roommate got his 4th choice. He had been geared up to be a marine since young childhood and got SWO.

This is one of the unfortunate outcomes and makes me wonder what it was that kept him out of USMC -- grades, conduct, aptitude, performance at Leatherneck, didn't connect with the USMC officers /SEA on the Yard ?

Back in the day, when Service "selection" was based solely on Order of Merit, there was plenty of disappointment, but at the end of the day, it seemed like we had more control of our destiny. (At least in my case, I did well enough that I knew that I knew II had a good chance at whatever I wanted to do). Now there is that subjective element of whether the chosen community wants you, and perhaps that creates some level of expectation that you have a chance at what you want to do, but at the end of the day, it all comes down to performance. "Wanting" to be pilot, SEAL, or Marine isn't enough in competitive world.

Can anyone comment on whether USNA provides counseling or feedback to those that get one of their later choices on the why they didn't get picked for something they really wanted ?

 

[A1Janitor]

Can anyone comment on whether USNA provides counseling or feedback to those that get one of their later choices on the why they didn't get picked for something they really wanted ?

I know of a midshipman who wanted marines. They put him swo instead. He was crushed. He was told his good GPA and major (chemistry) was more aligned with their need for swo. I heard this second hand obviously so I can’t speak to the veracity.

I heard this and not sure how accurate: they removed the honor offense disqualification for marines this year because of the large number implicated in the physics cheating.

 

[Banshee Mom]

Is USMC typically one of the most sought after selections ?

 

[Don't Give Up the Ship]

Is USMC typically one of the most sought after selections ?

I believe there are typically quite a few more who want USMC than who get assigned USMC.

 

[kit kat]

I know of a midshipman who wanted marines. They put him swo instead. He was crushed. He was told his good GPA and major (chemistry) was more aligned with their need for swo. I heard this second hand obviously so I can’t speak to the veracity.

I heard this and not sure how accurate: they removed the honor offense disqualification for marines this year because of the large number implicated in the physics cheating.

I know of a mid who cheated during a final and still got Marines this year. I couldn't figure out why, but now that makes sense if that disqualification wasn't there for 2023. Not sure if that is fair to someone who didn't have an honor offense and who got overlooked for Marines.

 

[Skipper07]

Not sure if that is fair to someone who didn't have an honor offense and who got overlooked for Marines.

"Fair" is not really in play for service selction. The needs of the services prevail. We were told in no uncertain terms that if you didn't get what you wanted, it was the direct result of your first choice community not wanting you.

 

[Capt MJ]

"Fair" is not really in play for service selction. The needs of the services prevail. We were told in no uncertain terms that if you didn't get what you wanted, it was the direct result of your first choice community not wanting you.

I’m glad they were direct with the class on that.

In the corporate world, it’s “We’re sorry, we didn’t see it as a good corporate fit for you.”

 

[NavyHoops]

I’m glad they were direct with the class on that.

In the corporate world, it’s “We’re sorry, we didn’t see it as a good corporate fit for you.”

If someone didn’t get USMC they lacked something. Either Leatherneck was not good, PT scores lacked, leadership was questionable. Could be some other factors, but maybe they just didn’t have the presence the Marines were looking for. In my class we had 2 former Marines not get USMC. The Marines on the yard had determined they had not met the mark to become commissioned Marines. They were rather lackluster Mids who rode the ‘I am a prior Marine’. I can guarantee the Marines on the yard were point blank along the way that they were not meeting the bar.

 

[usna1985]

We were told in no uncertain terms that if you didn't get what you wanted, it was the direct result of your first choice community not wanting you.

I wonder if there's a softer version of that statement, which is still true. For oversubscribed communities, it might be that they wanted you, but they wanted others more.

For example, if 300 mids select USMC as #1, USMC might really want all 300. But if USMC only has 250 slots in the class, they can't have all 300. So they will take the top 250. Does that mean they "didn't want" #251. Well, not as much as the 250 they chose but they might well have taken that person had they had the extra slots.

I've also heard that, in some years, there is some "trading" that goes on. For example, subs and nuke SWO communities must be filled. Let's say that, in X year, not enough people selected those communities. A particular mid really wants to be a Marine and did well in pre-stuff; however, this person also has the academic chops to be a nuke and maybe put nuke as #2 or #3. That person might end up a nuke even though USMC really wanted him / her. That may not be fair, but that's also needs of the Navy.

 

[Usnavy2019]

I wonder if there's a softer version of that statement, which is still true. For oversubscribed communities, it might be that they wanted you, but they wanted others more.

For example, if 300 mids select USMC as #1, USMC might really want all 300. But if USMC only has 250 slots in the class, they can't have all 300. So they will take the top 250. Does that mean they "didn't want" #251. Well, not as much as the 250 they chose but they might well have taken that person had they had the extra slots.

I've also heard that, in some years, there is some "trading" that goes on. For example, subs and nuke SWO communities must be filled. Let's say that, in X year, not enough people selected those communities. A particular mid really wants to be a Marine and did well in pre-stuff; however, this person also has the academic chops to be a nuke and maybe put nuke as #2 or #3. That person might end up a nuke even though USMC really wanted him / her. That may not be fair, but that's also needs of the Navy.

I have heard the same thing regarding trades. When I was a Mid, I was told that demonstrated interest is one of the big ways to gain protection. In other words, if the officers on the board know who you are and your paper demonstrates your interest in your desired community, then you bet they are going to want to keep you.

 

[Don't Give Up the Ship]

I suspect, most things involving personnel issues has shades of gray and often other factors. Same in the business world.

 

[noco]

I wonder if there's a softer version of that statement, which is still true. For oversubscribed communities, it might be that they wanted you, but they wanted others more.

For example, if 300 mids select USMC as #1, USMC might really want all 300. But if USMC only has 250 slots in the class, they can't have all 300. So they will take the top 250. Does that mean they "didn't want" #251. Well, not as much as the 250 they chose but they might well have taken that person had they had the extra slots.

I've also heard that, in some years, there is some "trading" that goes on. For example, subs and nuke SWO communities must be filled. Let's say that, in X year, not enough people selected those communities. A particular mid really wants to be a Marine and did well in pre-stuff; however, this person also has the academic chops to be a nuke and maybe put nuke as #2 or #3. That person might end up a nuke even though USMC really wanted him / her. That may not be fair, but that's also needs of the Navy.

So, my DS originally didn't have Nuke SWO on his list. About six weeks ago he received an e-mail saying that his grades were good enough for Nuke SWO and subs. They invited him to a dinner, which he went and he really liked the community. Then he was invited to interview in DC. He went to the interviews and truly liked everything about it. He early selected it (by two weeks.) In my opinion they really tried to get kids interested in the NUKE SWO community.

 

[A1Janitor]

So, my DS originally didn't have Nuke SWO on his list. About six weeks ago he received an e-mail saying that his grades were good enough for Nuke SWO and subs. They invited him to a dinner, which he went and he really liked the community. Then he was invited to interview in DC. He went to the interviews and truly liked everything about it. He early selected it (by two weeks.) In my opinion they really tried to get kids interested in the NUKE SWO community.

LOL My son changed interest in communities a lot.

The communities are persuasive and effective at their jobs.

 

[justdoit19]

I wonder if there's a softer version of that statement, which is still true. For oversubscribed communities, it might be that they wanted you, but they wanted others more.

For example, if 300 mids select USMC as #1, USMC might really want all 300. But if USMC only has 250 slots in the class, they can't have all 300. So they will take the top 250. Does that mean they "didn't want" #251. Well, not as much as the 250 they chose but they might well have taken that person had they had the extra slots.

I've also heard that, in some years, there is some "trading" that goes on. For example, subs and nuke SWO communities must be filled. Let's say that, in X year, not enough people selected those communities. A particular mid really wants to be a Marine and did well in pre-stuff; however, this person also has the academic chops to be a nuke and maybe put nuke as #2 or #3. That person might end up a nuke even though USMC really wanted him / her. That may not be fair, but that's also needs of the Navy.

This is exactly how it was presented in my somewhat recent BGO training, straight from the main person in charge of service assignment. Literally pulling people from one basket, to meet requirements in another. Trading. And so on, and so forth, until it’s done. So in some cases, a Mid is highly desired by more than one community….and not necessarily unwanted by the their number one request. Makes sense. Ive been told over the years, examples of Mids not receiving their desired 1 or 2 selection, being taken aside and having it explained to them by leadership In advance. Not for everyone of course. It seems that there is a way of handling some situations so those Mids arent ‘blindsided’ at service assignment. As always, needs of the Navy.

 

[usna1985]

I will say there was a LOT less apprehension in our day of service "selection." Most folks knew in advance, based on their OOM, what they would get. Some were on the bubble -- for example, NFO was very popular in the pre-PRK/LASIK days. However, those folks knew it and also had a pretty good idea what would be available for them when they selected. So, it was pretty much option A or option B.

There was still major disappointment. One person who used to post here lamented that he didn't study enough to be a submariner and had regretted that his entire life. However, it wasn't a surprise on SS night. One of our upperclass tore up his knee in the ND game and could no longer be a pilot or NFO. But he knew that well before SS night.

So, still heartache but a lot less drama and uncertainty.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

I will say there was a LOT less apprehension in our day of service "selection."

I agree...there were plenty on the bubble ... no one really knew where the cutoff's were for USMC, Pilot or NFO, but most had a pretty good idea where they would land. I do think there is some benefit to service "assignment" v "selection", but the downside is that it probably creates more uncertainty by giving some hope of getting what they really want instead of settling for what is left.

I will say , the other cool part of how we did it was that we "selected"everything that same night .... Community, School dates, TAD's enroute, etc. We didn't have a separate ship selection -- the SWO's picked their specific ship that night. (If my recollection is correct, Service Selection was also a couple months later ..perhaps during the Dark Ages).

 

[Skipper07]

Assignment:



During the process, only your #1 choice community "sees" you as a potential candidate for their community (your #2,3,etc choice communities don't see you unless the higher ranking communities chose not to take you). For the sake of the example, let's assume Aviation is your #1 choice and Subs is #2. If Aviation takes you, Subs never even sees you as a potential candidate. If Aviation cuts you, then Subs see you as available and can select you.

SARB/trading:

Let's assume that Aviation selected you and Subs now needs a few more. Subs cannot look into the list of prospective Aviators. Aviation must select a few candidates to offer up, but typically does this without knowledge of midshipman preferences (#2 and subsequent choices).
This is taken almost directly from an explanation by a senior officer.