Service Selection

[Heatherg21]

2/C son and I had a long conversation tonight. Pretty much one sided. He has established good relationships within his desired community and is meeting with mentors when possible. He is excited and animated when discussing career paths and real conversations about expectations for family life and duty requirements.

From what he has gathered making oneself known to your desired community in a positive way is important. Establishing real relationships and discussing desired goals is important.

Who knows if he is right or not. Ask me next Dec 1. When my then firstie will know his fate. I’m just here as his biggest fan. No apologies.

 

[Heatherg21]

Ahem

Oh goodness I forgot how much I despised those canary suits. Mini versions of Big Bird

 

[brewmeist]

Another factor is restricted vs unrestricted duty. Out of repect to his privacy, I won't go into detail, but I know a Mid who was well within the top 10 of his USNA class. And I don't mean top 10%. He was in the top 10 overall Mids. His major was in a 'restricted' field. He was #1 in that major. He eventually got bumped out of his top career choice because restrictive duty Mids took all the spots. He ended up getting his #3 or #4 choice. Please don't take this as me being "anti-restrictive duty Mids." I'm just stating a reality in the selection process.

 

[bubblehead#22]

Another factor is restricted vs unrestricted duty. Out of repect to his privacy, I won't go into detail, but I know a Mid who was well within the top 10 of his USNA class. And I don't mean top 10%. He was in the top 10 overall Mids. His major was in a 'restricted' field. He was #1 in that major. He eventually got bumped out of his top career choice because restrictive duty Mids took all the spots. He ended up getting his #3 or #4 choice. Please don't take this as me being "anti-restrictive duty Mids." I'm just stating a reality in the selection process.

Hi, can you please elaborate on what you mean by a ‘restricted’ field major

 

[A1Janitor]

Hi, can you please elaborate on what you mean by a ‘restricted’ field major

Maybe economics or computer science and the restricted line he wanted was intelligence or supply? Ocean engineering possibly - which only had 2 slots?

I didn’t think majors mattered for any service assignment.

 

[Jimdlt19]

Curious about the numbers for Maine Corps pilot. How competitive compared to Navy pilot and what do they look for in a mid who selects Marine Corps pilot ? I see the Marine Corps takes fewer pilots - guess I’m for looking for an idea as to why a Mid would choose Marine over Navy. Thanks.

Having come from the Marine Corps Helicopter Aviation community I can tell you it is competitive for Jets vice Helos. However, the Marines have identified a severe shortage of Jet Pilots and will not get any better with the full integration of the F-35B/C by 2030. So if you are looking for Jets you may have a great shot. There are numerous articles on the subject, here is just one:

The Marine Corps is headed for a pilot exodus

The Marine Corps needs to admit that they are failing in pilot production and management, costing them dearly in terms of combat readiness.

taskandpurpose.com

 

[Usnavy2019]

Another factor is restricted vs unrestricted duty. Out of repect to his privacy, I won't go into detail, but I know a Mid who was well within the top 10 of his USNA class. And I don't mean top 10%. He was in the top 10 overall Mids. His major was in a 'restricted' field. He was #1 in that major. He eventually got bumped out of his top career choice because restrictive duty Mids took all the spots. He ended up getting his #3 or #4 choice. Please don't take this as me being "anti-restrictive duty Mids." I'm just stating a reality in the selection process.

Maybe economics or computer science and the restricted line he wanted was intelligence or supply? Ocean engineering possibly - which only had 2 slots?

I didn’t think majors mattered for any service assignment.

I haven't heard of that being a thing either outside of random stuff like CEC requiring engineering majors (makes sense) and METOC having a preference (I don't think there was a hard and fast rule) for Oceanography majors. If that is what is meant by restricted, then I'll get behind that. I'd feel like there would be a disclaimer with certain majors if they were restrictive in nature (e.g. Choosing the Underwater Basket Weaving major will make you ineligible to select aviation).

I have also never heard of majors saying you can't be an X major because there aren't enough spots. Sure there is the 65/35 STEM requirement, but I have never heard of that restricting anyone.

URL qualified mids will always have an uphill battle with RL/Staff billets. USNA and ROTC exist to produce combat-qualified officers. OCS and ODS are the typical commissioning sources for RL/Staff.

 

[A1Janitor]

I haven't heard of that being a thing either outside of random stuff like CEC requiring engineering majors (makes sense) and METOC having a preference (I don't think there was a hard and fast rule) for Oceanography majors. If that is what is meant by restricted, then I'll get behind that. I'd feel like there would be a disclaimer with certain majors if they were restrictive in nature (e.g. Choosing the Underwater Basket Weaving major will make you ineligible to select aviation).

I have also never heard of majors saying you can't be an X major because there aren't enough spots. Sure there is the 65/35 STEM requirement, but I have never heard of that restricting anyone.

URL qualified mids will always have an uphill battle with RL/Staff billets. USNA and ROTC exist to produce combat-qualified officers. OCS and ODS are the typical commissioning sources for RL/Staff.

That is what I thought.

I am just happy they found something for my restricted son!

 

[nuensis]

NPQ Restricted Line and PQ Restricted Line have separate quotas. NPQ MIDN would not "bump" PQ MIDN from PQ RL quotas.

PQ Restricted Line is extremely competitive. OOM is not the only factor. Interview, screening, participation in community events and training, and interaction with community officers and senior enlisted is in many ways much more important in selection than just raw OOM.

CEC does not require engineering majors. CEC requires officers to pass the FE exam. If you can find a state that will administer an FE without a B.S. in Engineering, it meets the requirement.

The quotas for NPQ RL are so few that preferences should be read more as soft requirements. If METOC has two quotas, and there are 35 1/C in the Oceanography department alone, with all the technical skills and expertise they are looking for, why would they look elsewhere? Same logic for any of the other IW communities. Screening is open to everyone, but realistically a History major that did YPs and sailing for summer training is not a competitive candidate for CW. A community like CWE with a technical programming interview is all but shut to non-CS/IT/Cyber majors without significant skills in that niche.

 

[nuensis]

The quotas for NPQ RL are so few that preferences should be read more as soft requirements.

Meant to type PQ. NPQ quotas are plentiful--the Navy either already did the math at appointment or are adjusting due to some condition acquired while at the Academy (and thus generally considered "service-connected").

 

[ders_dad]

CEC requires officers to pass the FE exam. If you can find a state that will administer an FE without a B.S. in Engineering, it meets the requirement.

The FE (for EIT) requires graduation (or soon to be) from an ABET accredited engineering program but I believe South Dakota may allow non engineers to sit for the exam. Most states have gotten more uniform in requirements over the years. California is its own world.

 

[Memphis9489]

There are limits on how many can be assigned to each billet...

I've never heard of a "limit" for SWO. That doesn't mean there isn't one. I have never heard of one. I have never heard a story like, "I wanted SWO but all the slots were taken."

There are some communities that have "limits." EOD, SEALS & MedCorps seem to be examples. The Navy is not going to force anybody into any of those communities, but they will limit how many go into those communities.

Some have "quotas." Subs seems to be an example. I don't think they would have much of a "limit." I'll bet they'd be very flexible on that. If the quota was 135 and they got 140 midshipmen who were qualified and preferenced it - I'm guessing they'd take all 140. But they won't settle for 130. I doubt they'd settle for 134.

Some have "limits & quotas." I'm not sure what communities would fit into this category - maybe Marine Ground. They might have a target bracket - something like; no less than xx but no more than yy.

And some have neither. I'm thinking SWO might be in this category. Not sure.

 

[Memphis9489]

Here is the Navy's release regarding the recent Service Assignment for the Class of '23.

NAVAL ACADEMY CLASS OF 2023 OBTAIN CAREER ASSIGNMENTS

NAVAL ACADEMY CLASS OF 2023 OBTAIN CAREER ASSIGNMENTS page for USNA News Center at USNA.edu. Updated Sat Apr 13 23:49:03 EDT 2024.

www.usna.edu

"Roughly 93% percent of 1st Class midshipmen (seniors) in the Class of 2023 received their first or second assignment preference."

As I've said many times, the Naval Academy is reticent to say the percentage of midshipmen who goth their 1st choice. Typically, they lump 1st and 2nd choices together in order to come up with a deceptively high percentage.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

I've never heard of a "limit" for SWO. That doesn't mean there isn't one.

There certainly wasn't a limit back in our day of service selection -- I would expect that the Anchor Man in each class got the pick of remaining SWO billets and probably had some extras left over. That said, with Service Assignment, there may be more structure to the process -- but at the end of the day, there are probably still more SWO billets available than USNA Midshipman to take them .

 

[Memphis9489]

Another factor is restricted vs unrestricted duty. Out of repect to his privacy, I won't go into detail, but I know a Mid who was well within the top 10 of his USNA class. And I don't mean top 10%. He was in the top 10 overall Mids. His major was in a 'restricted' field. He was #1 in that major. He eventually got bumped out of his top career choice because restrictive duty Mids took all the spots. He ended up getting his #3 or #4 choice. Please don't take this as me being "anti-restrictive duty Mids." I'm just stating a reality in the selection process.

I think a midshipman is prohibited from pursuing a restricted line community if they are physically qualified for an unrestricted line community. The only exception is the Medical Corps, as far as I know.

For instance, a midshipman cannot go into the Supply Corps just because he/she had a really high order of merit and was the #1 Econ major.

 

[A1Janitor]

I think a midshipman is prohibited from pursuing a restricted line community if they are physically qualified for an unrestricted line community. The only exception is the Medical Corps, as far as I know.

For instance, a midshipman cannot go into the Supply Corps just because he/she had a really high order of merit and was the #1 Econ major.

Interesting - I didn’t know that. I look forward to follow up on this.

 

[Capt MJ]

Interesting - I didn’t know that. I look forward to follow up on this.

Pore through this. It all comes down to needs of the Navy. Exceptions can be made at any time.

In general, USNA is a delivery pipeline for Unrestricted Line (URL) officers to the Fleet. As you know from your son’s situation, there are those midshipmen who know they are NPQ for URL from the get-go, and they will be headed to RL or Staff Corps. The Medical Corps/Dental Corps set-aside has been in existence for quite some time now. The Navy gets the RL and Staff Corps people it needs from direct accession program, lateral transfer, and OCS.

If the Navy finds it needs, say, a few more Cyber from the upcoming FY crop of new ensigns, it will allow a handful of PQ mids to go direct to Cyber.

https://www.usna.edu/AdminSupport/_files/USNAINST_1301.5L_Midshipmen_Service_Assignment.pdf

 

[dav1y]

From what I've heard, mids who are PQ can go through an IWC "screener" and if they qualify, put IWC (restricted line) as their first choice for service assignment. With that said, it's incredibly hard to go IWC if you are PQ so again the chances are very low but I know a handful of people personally who got IWC who were also PQ.

 

[nuensis]

I think a midshipman is prohibited from pursuing a restricted line community if they are physically qualified for an unrestricted line community. The only exception is the Medical Corps, as far as I know.

For instance, a midshipman cannot go into the Supply Corps just because he/she had a really high order of merit and was the #1 Econ major.

No longer the case. PQ IWC started with '15, a couple of billets each for CW and IP. It has expanded since, but the URL vs. RL discussion always comes up. Every MIDN commissioning into IW is one less for SWO, subs, and aviation.

 

[justme]

I'm torn. I understand the overwhelming need to produce URL officers and keeping a tight grip on that ratio. But, I don't understand why Ensigns from USNA/NROTC are inherently better qualified for URL than those from OCS, and vice versa.