Stand and Fight …. No one gets out of this World alive

Walman888 said:
Cunning is the first word that comes to mind with Vlad. He's been practicing a lifetime, climbing the ranks of the KGB, and then the political ladder of Russia. This fiasco seems to be worst miscalculation he's ever made. He just may be old enough to have underestimated the globally connected modern world.
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NJROTC-CC said:
AVG “Flying Tigers” in China. But they were well paid.
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They sure did, but performed superbly. And were later integrated into yhe USAAF after Pearl Harbor.
 
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France was recently dismayed by Sec. of Defense Lloyd Austin’s remark that Ukraine, with our help, will wear Russia down and weaken them to the point where they will never do this again.

In my view, France’s reply is a crying shame. Poland along with all of my other brothers in the Baltic states are certainly all-in on Austin’s assertions.

I say let your enemy (Putin) know where you stand … Russia will not prevail as long as we keep supplying Ukraine on the ground. It’s working. Never kick-the-tires or him-haw on what your goal is …. Make it clear.

Putin won’t last another year.
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Progress … Now we’re cooking with gas

“ [Kharkiv Ukrainian counteroffensive, Reuters] … April. If sustained, it could let Ukrainian forces threaten supply lines for Russia’s main attack force, and even put rear logistics targets within Russia itself within striking range of Ukrainian artillery.”

Push all the way to Putin’s doorstep.

Make him hurt.
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Dr. Strange Love said:
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Progress … Now we’re cooking with gas

“ [Kharkiv Ukrainian counteroffensive, Reuters] … April. If sustained, it could let Ukrainian forces threaten supply lines for Russia’s main attack force, and even put rear logistics targets within Russia itself within striking range of Ukrainian artillery.”

Push all the way to Putin’s doorstep.

Make him hurt.
.
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No doubt Russia is the aggressor and deserves whatever punishment it gets. But we have to be concerned about what Putin will do when backed into a corner. We could be looking at “Nuculer combat toe to toe with the Ruskies” as Major Kong so aptly put it.
 
NJROTC-CC said:
No doubt Russia is the aggressor and deserves whatever punishment it gets. But we have to be concerned about what Putin will do when backed into a corner. We could be looking at “Nuculer combat toe to toe with the Ruskies” as Major Kong so aptly put it.
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I see what you did there, making a Dr. Strangelove allusion to @Dr. Strange Love.
 
flieger83 said:
Uh, no. That's the one thing I do not fear: a nuclear exchange with Russia.
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The risk of mutually assured destruction has worked for decades. I think we sometimes operate in fear of the threat to our detriment. And I’m not a hawk or leaning toward extreme behavior. But what is happening is horrific, and I for one really don’t want to look back and say we wished we had done more to stop genocide.
 
flieger83 said:
Uh, no. That's the one thing I do not fear: a nuclear exchange with Russia.
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“Fear,” maybe not. But nuclear war is something to consider when dealing with a desperate individual dictator backed into a corner. I think we would be justified in ordering a preemptive decapitation strike (non-nuclear) to take Putin out given his existential threats to us.
 
If Hitler in his last dying days had nukes would he have used them?

Its very possible we are now dealing with a dying, insane, leader where previous behavior of national leaders may not be a good guide.

And it’s not like the US did not at lease discuss using nukes in Korea, Vietnam, and during our standoff with Russia over Cuba . We had military advocating for using nukes,

The one good sign (maybe unless it’s a truly bad sign) the air fly over for the May Day Parade was canceled this year. Allegedly because Putin could not be sure his air force would not kill him.

Allegedly.
 
Putin's back is hardly against the wall, nor will it be. No one is going to threaten Russia's or Putin's existence.
 
The real issue with folks in Congress and, especially, the media when speaking about nuclear weapons is they mostly don't have clue-one about how they work, what they're actually capable of, etc.

I spent much (not all) of my flying career in the business of being part of our nuclear triad: the air-launched version. I have sat alert with an aircraft "nuked up" to the hilt. When my base had an active alert force, we had five bombers on alert. Each aircraft was armed with 22 weapons (this is no longer classified, for those that are interested). The five aircraft, alone, constituted the fourth largest nuclear power on earth. We were more powerful than nations.

When you deal with these weapons, you learn about them. You learn what they do, how they do it, and what the ramifications of using them are. While it's easy to say a national leader might be "desperate" and willing to use them, you have to remember that it's not one individual that controls these weapons. Well, at least in terms of Russia, the USA, France, Great Britain, Israel...I can't speak for the other nuclear nations. All the briefings I had (again, years ago) said that the other nations were just like us: several people had to agree to employ these weapons.

Small Team Bacsi made a good point and one worth remembering: in October 1962, the world came close. Military leaders in Washington were considering the tactical use of small nuclear weapons in Cuba, if necessary. The Soviets were considering using them to break a military blockade. In the end, it almost happened. Read about Vasili Arkhipov; considered by many to have saved the earth.

I don't think the Russian people/government would consider the use of nuclear weapons unless M1-Abrams were rolling up on Red Square...and even then.

Of course, my opinion and $1.08 will get you an XL Polar Pop at Circle K. So judge accordingly.

Steve

PS. If you want to get just a small "idea" of what nukes do...google "nuke map" and you'll find a webpage where you can "nuke" things to your hearts content. It's, actuall,y pretty accurate.
 
flieger83 said:
The real issue with folks in Congress and, especially, the media when speaking about nuclear weapons is they mostly don't have clue-one about how they work, what they're actually capable of, etc.
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I have always assumed that everyone in the United States has been taught that a full nuclear exchange between superpowers would likely be the end of the human race. That is why many are concerned about Putin starting a nuclear war - - even using low grade tactical battlefield weapons - - that could spiral out of control.
 
flieger83 said:
PS. If you want to get just a small "idea" of what nukes do...google "nuke map" and you'll find a webpage where you can "nuke" things to your hearts content. It's, actuall,y pretty accurate.
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FWIW, I used to teach some of this at the Naval Guided Missiles School. Nuclear Weapons effects was of considerable
importance to us as the fleet had (some) nuclear Surface to Air missiles as well as nuclear Depth Charges.
 
www.pbs.org

The Korean War | American Experience | PBS

The Korean War provided the first confrontation between two nuclear powers. And as the war progressed the conflict demonstrated how difficult it would be for either side to use atomic bombs decisively in battle.
www.pbs.org

On November 30 1950 President Truman told a press conference that he had been actively considering using nukes since the beginning of the Korean war.

He later told the UK PM that there was no actual intent to use them——unless we faced a “military disaster”

If Fox Company had not held ……..
 
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