The Stimulus Program


10-Year Member
Founding Member
Oct 10, 2007
Spending a trillion dollars and they have to cut back on the Raptor program. Un-stinking-believable.

OK, this should get some people really fired up!
BUt I've read Senator Pelosi's district got a really nice park for some endangered field mice in the package for a paltry $30 million. Nice!:thumb:
"Fired up" ??? Why, you must have thought this was to 'save or create jobs.'

Those L-M employees will have greater unemployment benefits because of the "stimulus" bill, once the Raptor program is over! :shake:
Coast Guard lost $122 million for new cutters. :thumbdown:

I suppose that $650 million for the Digital Converter Box Program to help us transition to DTV is much more important to our homeland security. :rolleyes:


The average age of our Deepwater cutters is 30 years.

The Coast Guard fleet of High and Medium Endurance Cutters is older than 37 of the 39 (naval) fleets worldwide.
We usually see a lot of disagreement on forums. It's the nature of the beast. This is just like BCT, Basic Training, OTS, etc... where the first thing they do to new recruits is to find something they ALL have in common. This way they concentrate on their similarities instead of their differences. Sometimes those commonalities is that everyone agrees that the drill instructor sucks, or the food sucks, or the weather sucks, etc... Well, I think with all our disagreements on this forum, we have found something MOST of agree with. (Yes, there will be some that don't agree). That King Obama, Princess Pelosi, and Prince Reed combined doesn't care too much for the military. Their stimulus package is a good example.

I have nothing to say. It might get me in trouble with the moderators.
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Sorry to you Zoomies rooting for USAFA, but the raptor is unneeded. With the counterinsurgencies we're fighting (and will fight in the future) in the Middle East, there simply is no need for a $350 million-a-jet fighter program. Plus, the fighters are only ready for flight 62% of the time. for the price of one Raptor, we could buy a dozen UAVs, which are much more helpful and needed in Iraq and Afghanistan. I feel bad for saying it, but the days of the combat pilot are coming to an end,9171,1879176,00.html

Gates has a tough job of taming the Pentagon, but is a noble endeavor. When IEDs and Terrorists have replaced Russian MiGs as our enemies, the Raptor needs to have its wings clipped
And Christcorp:
Get a grip! I have a hunch you rooted for McCain, but nonetheless, if you are going to the military, you need to lock up all those fiery political positions! General Odierno, Petraeus' replacement in Iraq, said he wasnt going to vote in the election. While I would still vote, he made a very good point. It is not the job of the military to argue over politics and whether or not the president doesnt care about the military (obviously he does), but rather to protect the president, and the millions of other Americans who depend on them to keep America safe from harm
The raptor, which is definitely needed considering how old and potentially unsafe many of the aircraft in the inventory is; is just a metaphor for the new regime's contempt for the military. FREEDOM had NEVER been FREE. The far left has made it know for years what their agenda is. They want a socialist society. They want our country to be socialist. They have admitted it numerous times. The want the government to run all the banks, financial system, healthcare, economy, etc... They want our country to be part of a world socialist government. They want capitalism and an individual's ability to prosper to be taken away. Well, in order for this to happen, you need 2 things to occur first. You need to find the money to do it, and you have to reduce our military capabilities so that we don't have a military edge over other countries and we will require more UN and other country's cooperation in our military endeavors. Well, you get everything you want by reducing funding to the military. You get money for your social programs. The military becomes weaker and more dependent on other countries. With the USA not being the predominant power in the world (Which usually means paying a higher price than other countries); we would NEED more equal cooperation from other countries. That makes us more EQUAL.

No, the Raptor is just a metaphor for what they Obamareedelosi administration has in store for our military and out country. This is not conspiracy theories. They have made much of this information quite clear over the last few years. What they wanted to do when their party got back into power. And that included reducing our military. So, you might see it only as a plane. But it will happen to coast guard and navy ships; helicopters and tanks; and many other technologies and personnel.

P.S. BOXER: Know what you're talking about before inserting foot. I spent 20+ years in the air force. I am now retired; not that many years ago. My son is now an academy cadet at the air force academy. I have PAID my dues. I have the movie rights and the T-shirt. I'm allowed to speak for those now that you say aren't suppose to. Please; whether you're an applicant, cadet, parent, or military member; know what you're speaking of before saying it.
Woah man, people are gonna get mad. You can't always look at today, you must prepare for tomorrow my friend.
Yes, I do see it, and it is a good thing. Funneling billions of dollars into Cold-War Weapons like subs and carriers when we need counter-insurgency technology is a gross waste of money, just like the field-mice gobbly-gook.

And listen to yourself lol! from the way you write, Id guess you have a poster of Ann Coulter over your bed haha! Deep-rooted contempt for your fellow Americans isnt going to make your life easier. In the military, you're defending all Americans: Democrat and Republican, Gay and Straight, White and Black.

Flyersboy114: Perfect point. It was once said that "armies are always prepared for the last war they fought, but never the next" (or something similar haha)

But i apologize for sparking up a heated debate. In the spirit of cooperation, Ill stop arguing over this matter
Hey boxer what were the first operations conducted in Iraq?

Fighter/bomber missions. Without our air superiority we would have had a much harder time in Iraq. Personally I feel air superiority is needed to achieve victory in war. The F-22 helps us achieve that.
Boxer; please give us a little Bio of yourself. I would like to know what your position is and from what your experiences are. There is nothing wrong with us disagreeing. We don't have to have the same opinions. I spent a lot of years with other military brothers and sisters who had different political convictions. There were pro and con in the military for every president and political party. I would sort of like to know where your experiences come from so I can understand your position better.

And my comments were simply stating that reducing the raptor was NOT a singular act. It is a prelude to MUCH MORE military cutbacks.
Here it goes again... *sigh*

Anyway, just because the F-15 and F-16 do the job now doesn't mean they will later. Think if we kept WWII weapons for Vietnam.

Opposing countries will continue to develop weapons to beat ours. We must stay ahead.

Plus, who says we'll only be at war with Iraq and Afghanistan in 10 years? No one know what could happen. Hope for the best, expect the worst.
Flyers: I know that of course lol. But we already have 138 raptors, and plenty more F18s. Expanding the number at the current time isnt wise

Christcorp: Lmao, i love how kind your attack on me is! I dont have any military experience yet, but I still believe deeply in my views that cutting back on some programs and funding others would benefit our counterinsurgency operations greatly
Boxer, I see you are new. Forums are hard to read how people are trying to convey their post. I have been on this forum since September, I have read many posts and have become to understand how some people convey their messages. Christcorp was not trying to "attack" you, he was curious to see how we could talk about this.

P.S. Another thread gone off track and leading to personal attacks, it appears we are becoming like college confidential :thumbdown:
Flyers: I know that of course lol. But we already have 138 raptors, and plenty more F18s. Expanding the number at the current time isnt wise

Christcorp: Lmao, i love how kind your attack on me is! I dont have any military experience yet, but I still believe deeply in my views that cutting back on some programs and funding others would benefit our counterinsurgency operations greatly

You think that 138 Raptors is enough? The Russians will produce thousands of their new Sukhoi aircraft and export them to many countries. The Chinese are developing new fighters as well. Once we close down the F-22 line, no more will be produced. I pray that we don't kick ourselves for this decision.

The F-18 is getting old as well. It is not a new aircraft.

You speak of only counterinsurgency. We won't always be fighting insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan. Just because Afghanistan had kites for an air force, and Iraq had poor training doesn't mean we will always face adversaries like that.
new raptors would be better then our old ones and no doubt ready more then 60% of the time.

its about so much more then just the raptors though.