Unwanted service assignment

cravius said:
Honestly, you have been giving poor advice on this topic.
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This is your opinion. Clearly I disagree and perhaps we should let the OP and his son make this decision after hearing ALL opinions.
cravius said:
Advising a cadet who didnt get their first choice of branch to hold out or make waves within the big Navy is an entirely different issue.
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Hold out? I never suggested any such thing. I suggested he be firm and to decide what he wanted in his future.
cravius said:
All these young men and women who are going to be future officers need to learn sooner rather than later that the military is going to involve unpleasant assignments.
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Assignment? This is more than a temporary duty station or unpleasant desk assignment.
cravius said:
You can make the best of it and drive on, or flail about and try and change an inevitable outcome.
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I really don't think it's a good idea for anyone to flail about. As to whether it's an "inevitable outcome"...well that's what we are discussing.
cravius said:
Advising a cadet to do the latter is disingenuous.
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It may not be the correct course of action according to you but it definitely is not "disingenuous" (you might want to check the meaning of that word).

I still believe the OP's son should firmly convey his feelings/opinions to those that have chosen him for this career. If despite his expressing himself to his immediate chain of command...he is still sent for a pre-nuke interview....he'll have another chance to firmly inform those decision makers about his feelings towards nukes. If after all that, the Navy in it's infinite wisdom decides to force a square peg into a round hole and invest money on nuke school and training...then the mid will have to make the best of the situation. BUT....up until then....the mid should stand up for what he wants. Again...JMPO
 
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Pima said:
~ AF has according to reports below 60% takers currently! That is an :eek: for them.
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My nephew is an E-6 in the AF and to be honest, I'm not sure exactly what he's doing nowadays. Last year during part of the latest down-sizing, he was told that out of the 65-70 people in his assignment, the AF wanted to get rid of (5) of them. They asked for volunteers and OVER HALF volunteered to check out. According to my nephew, that was kind of a wake up call as the general feeling was/is that "something is wrong with the way we're doing things if 50% of our people want to leave".
 
In all of my years here I can't recall a thread locked on the ROTC forum, not saying it hasn't occurred just saying it is insanely rare.

If it does not come back to the OPs 1uestion and continues with the pound on aglages I suspect that it will be locked.

If you really care about the poster than let's get back on track. Hornetrhino has been given both sides of the fence, it is up to then to decide their path.

Flaming the other side only hurts you and this site.
 
K2 we are going off topic now,and it was never my intention to go down the rabbit hole of the bonus, just to illustrate why in the next few years there will be pilots leaving thus creating a vacuum and increasing the chances for their OP.

Off topic, in the AF, the E airframe has always had a horrible retention level. The E6 is the looking glass and their mission is basically being the same as a commercial pilot, but add a lot of time away from home. DS told us before winging he would be happy with anything as long as it did not start with the letter E.
~ Just saying I think the leaving has more to do with the mission and less to do with the idea something is wrong with the AF personnel wise. These pilots can be deployed 180-210 days a year...war time or not....that is their mission!

The below 60% rate was for fighters. The current heavy bonus is 125k until the 14 year marker and then another re-up at 25k a year. It works out the same in the end.
~ I put that rate out there so the OP would realize the grass is not greener in the rated world for fighters. If it was, there would be no need to pony up money.
~~ IE I might be wrong, but if they wanted to jump out of perfectly good airplanes their pay hasn't changed for @40+ years and they have enough qualified volunteers to jump/. They obviously pay a nice penny for submariners. Why? To keep the experienced personnel.
~~~ Bullet started UNT in 1988. DS started in 13. It was the e_act same flight pay for both. Why? Because they had them, and it would be fiscally irresponsible to pay more when they had them on the hook for the next 10 years
 
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Totally agree, Pima.

And genuinely in the spirit of helping the OP, in my personal opinion I don't think it's ever a great idea to "sandbag" or deliberately fail at things your country and military have asked you to do. It's not in keeping with the best traditions of our wonderful military or the oaths our young men and women take. Oh, and it's bad kharma too. :smile:

Once again to the OP... sorry for the disappointing news. No fun there and many feel for you and your family. Hopefully some of the info you find here will help in some way... either to change the outcome or make it a positive, if unanticipated, career opportunity.
 
Folks,

Agree with Pima. Don't want to lock this thread as it is a legitimate and timely discussion.

Please, as always, keep discussion and debate civil and do NOT insult or belittle other posters.

Your Friendly Mod
 
Pima said:
I am curious why they do the interviews when they do them. I get that not everyone is a fit for living in a sub(I know it would drive me crazy....not a fan of being in long tunnels) but why do they do them after they are already in academics, especially if they have 30% that do not get past the interview.

My pea brain just says to me that it would make sense to me that the interview would be step one.
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Pima-Some mids do get interviews before service selection, but the majority are after. It consists of separate interviews with three engineers nukes. If 2 are unfavorable they go to the 4 star admiral for final determination, if 3 are unfavorable, your out. In my DS case he made it to the admiral with whom he connected very well with. He looked over his record and said you will have no problem and your in. I guess he was correct, his first major test today he "crushed it"
 
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/usw/usw_spring_10/best_fit.html
"All midshipmen considered for submarines must have academic and performance records that forecast a high likelihood of success in submarines, as well as a positive attitude about assignment to submarines, before they are sent for interviews at Naval Reactors. After technical interviews at Naval Reactors, each midshipman interviews with the Director, who questions them to determine, among other things, their attitude about serving in the Submarine Force. The Director selects only those who demonstrate a positive attitude about the assignment and a willingness to give it their best."

Thanks for posting the link. This was from Spring 2010. Is it likely that the Navy no longer cares about their midshipmen's attitude toward nukes?
 
aglages said:
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/usw/usw_spring_10/best_fit.html
"All midshipmen considered for submarines must have academic and performance records that forecast a high likelihood of success in submarines, as well as a positive attitude about assignment to submarines, before they are sent for interviews at Naval Reactors. After technical interviews at Naval Reactors, each midshipman interviews with the Director, who questions them to determine, among other things, their attitude about serving in the Submarine Force. The Director selects only those who demonstrate a positive attitude about the assignment and a willingness to give it their best."

Thanks for posting the link. This was from Spring 2010. Is it likely that the Navy no longer cares about their midshipmen's attitude toward nukes?
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I would be surprised if midshipmen who fail/drop out of nuke interviews or programs would then get their first choice branch like Aviation. At that point it probably becomes needs of the Navy.
 
My mid always hoped for aviation, then one day surprised us all saying he wanted subs. He has spoken with a number of people from subs and finds the idea interesting. Who knows yours might decide subs are actually a good fit. I'm not military, but it seems to me if you want a long career you make the most out of what the military wants you to do.
 
hornetrhinodad said:
I did a quick search but couldn't find anything. Sorry if a repeat. My son is in NROTC and has been on track for aviation. He did one year no scholarship, then was awarded a CO scholarship. Scored way high on all tests and passed all medical. Number 2 in his command. Was assigned to to a VFA squadron for first class cruise and felt at home. Had an F/A-18 flight and knew he was where he was supposed to be. He just called and said he was "drafted" to submarine nuke billet. Figures it is because he's engineering and did good in physics and calculus. What the heck? He's an aerospace engineering major, selected aviation as his top choices, but is "drafted" to nuke school? He is devastated. What are his options? Is there any appeal process, or is he committed to the selection board choice? This really isn't where he wants to be. Can his assignment be changed? What process is available to seek a different billet, if any?
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yeah ive been hearing about that happening, but isnt the sub community supposed to be all volunteer, i mean they can force him to be a nuke, but not sure about sub
 
I would suggest you spend some time in the Naval Academy portion of this website.

The Nuke Sub draft out of Annapolis has been going on for at least five years and probably years before that. My nephew was near the top of his class at Annapolis, an Aeronautical Engineering major, and feared the Sub Draft. In the end he wasn't drafted, got his first choice of Aviation, and after two years at MIT, is now about six months into his jet training in Alabama. A friend of his I met at the Poinsettia Bowl was drafted, there was nothing really to do about it, and got a $20k or $30k signing bonus for the Nuke billet.

From the first day of Induction into the Naval Academy, the phrase "the needs of the Navy" is branded into every mid's mind. It is real, and it should be if you really think about it.
 
valenciaalexj said:
yeah ive been hearing about that happening, but isnt the sub community supposed to be all volunteer, i mean they can force him to be a nuke, but not sure about sub
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There are two Nuke communities... SWO and Subs. I've only heard about drafting in to the Sub nuke community.
 
I posted this in another thread but realize this may be more appropriate:
Question for the well informed

DS is currently a MIDM 2/C and a Senior at one of the toughest Ivy Schools; 4 yr scholarship awarded in second semester of freshman year as he joined as a College Programmer (applied to USNA , Summer Seminar, Candidate Week End. etc. very competitive but as a foreign born and raised student could only apply for VP nomination, and ,ouch!, did not get it. He also did not get NROTC scholarship at first try). Only college he was not accepted was MIT. Current Unit is great but very small, he is majoring in M. Engineering with very high GPA ( Straight Dean's List since first semester), good current billet etc..
The question is the following: he is absolutely certain of his first choice as future Naval Aviator and he has already passed ASTB with good marks but is going for a second try aiming at 99%. Given his very high GPA he is very concerned that he might be selected for Nuclear School, he would not mind it at all ( indeed it would his second choice and had a very positive experience during Summer Cruise) but his heart is truly set on eventually going to Test Pilot School.
Currently he is the only Mid who will put in for Naval Aviation. Does anyone have any idea of what his chances may be in 2016?

Is there an attempt to allocate assignments so that there is "variety" in the assignments from a given school?
 
hornetrhinodad any update on your sons situation. I also fear the nuke draft. It's to the point where I am not motivated in class anymore for fear of my nuke resume getting better. 2/C midn, mech engineering, 3.3 Gpa, 777 astb scores.
 
hornetrhinodad said:
I did a quick search but couldn't find anything. Sorry if a repeat. My son is in NROTC and has been on track for aviation. He did one year no scholarship, then was awarded a CO scholarship. Scored way high on all tests and passed all medical. Number 2 in his command. Was assigned to to a VFA squadron for first class cruise and felt at home. Had an F/A-18 flight and knew he was where he was supposed to be. He just called and said he was "drafted" to submarine nuke billet. Figures it is because he's engineering and did good in physics and calculus. What the heck? He's an aerospace engineering major, selected aviation as his top choices, but is "drafted" to nuke school? He is devastated. What are his options? Is there any appeal process, or is he committed to the selection board choice? This really isn't where he wants to be. Can his assignment be changed? What process is available to seek a different billet, if any?
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Any updates?
 
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