I wondered this too. It's so important to teach our kids to advocate for ourselves and others. I have all daughters and I have talked until I'm blue in the face how simple urine and blood tests can rule out/confirm something fairly quickly and to push for those. Does the academy/tricare have any teledoc options? So many kids resistant to going to the clinic for fear of missing something, getting in trouble, etc. Pink eye, respiratory/sinus infections, etc...things that can be solved with a teledoc type appt. But back to your initial question...why didn't someone take her to the hopsital. Did the coaches know?
USAFA Cadet Death
- Thread starter BBMomma
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IslandSpider
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Ya, the Cadet Clinic didn't run any tests, they just sent her back to the dorm.
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If this happened to a sailor on my ship, I'd be looking at why their Leading Petty Officer, Chief and Division Officer were not pushing
for proper care. It was always my job as a DivO, Dept Head and later XO and Co to advocate for my people and if their chain of
command was not doing the job, they would get reminded that their responsibilities extend far beyond their hardware/equipment.
for proper care. It was always my job as a DivO, Dept Head and later XO and Co to advocate for my people and if their chain of
command was not doing the job, they would get reminded that their responsibilities extend far beyond their hardware/equipment.
She went to the clinic, had been coughing up blood and asked to go to the hospital. What more could she do? She had no car.
Upperclassman could have taken her, track and field staff, athletic trainers-they have cars? I have a kid up there as well, she said the med clinic is well I won't repeat what she said and she wasn't confident in the care there based on what her peers were misdiagnosed with, ignored symptoms, lack of compassion, etc. That's problem #1. The next problem is if someone is throwing up blood, why wouldn't the clinic run a full panel? That's extremely concerning.
She actually had been taken to the ER I believe a week or two prior. Some will recall that we were on restriction for quite some time at the start of this semester, and during that time the clinic was backed up for weeks. The start of a semester is always stressful but with freshmen coming out of basic with Jack’s hack already, many upperclassmen got infected as well. There was no alternative medical care beyond the clinic and they ended up being so far backed up that cadets had to be taken to the ER to get care and that still wasn’t enough, clearly. She wasn’t able to get the medical care she needed because of some sort of negligence along the chain somewhere and frankly as a parent I would be worried to send my child to the academy in the state that it’s in right now.
It's crazy to me that they wouldn't bring in NPs, PAs, etc from the surrounding posts/bases to run an in-house clinic because yes I heard so many infections were taking out kids left and right. Extremely concerning.
Stormbird
Stormbird USAFA Grad
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E veryone needs to stop with the speculation and finger pointing. You need to wait for the investigation to run its full course.
There is a lot of information I am sure, none of the posters on here are aware of.
There most likely will be multiple investigations as previously stated and it may take months before all of the information is available, or maybe it won't be because of HIPAA.
We all want our children to be taken care of as best as possible while they are at a service Academy, but we need to wait for the results of the investigations before we throw the First Responders and Medical Care people under the bus.
There is a lot of information I am sure, none of the posters on here are aware of.
There most likely will be multiple investigations as previously stated and it may take months before all of the information is available, or maybe it won't be because of HIPAA.
We all want our children to be taken care of as best as possible while they are at a service Academy, but we need to wait for the results of the investigations before we throw the First Responders and Medical Care people under the bus.
soccer67
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I agree with your point, but are you speculating that there is still an investigation into the circumstances that led to this sad outcome?
IslandSpider
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Ya... we're supposed to "trust the process." I for one am not going to trust a broken process under failed leadership! I want heads on a stake!
It sounds like the restrictions to base weren't properly planned. Food and Healthcare issues.
usafa1993
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I, too, feel that the system failed. I also want heads to roll, and I do not trust leadership to conduct an unbiased investigation.
That being said...
Is correct that we are largely speculating at this point.
I do have personal knowledge of a Firstie at the Zoo who had some sort of very bad respiratory ailment, and it was getting worse weekly. After an initial brush-off by the Clinic, he chose to tough-it-out and let the body heal itself. This Firstie's mother (who knew of worsening condition) was able to track down (through the Command Post) a cadet-friend in another squadron, and she implore this friend to get her son to the hospital. The friend approached the Firstie on a Saturday, accompanied by a couple of other friends, and said, "You're getting worse - not better. We're taking you to the hospital. It's not open for discussion." Well, he had bronchitis that developed into pneumonia. I got better within a couple of days at the hospital.
The Morals...
If Firsties, that walk like gods at the Academy, are sometimes highly resistant/stubborn to seeking medical care, then try to remember what it was like when we were Four Degrees.
Young people usually believe they tough-out any sort of sickness. Especially if they are athletic and fit.
No one in the leadership nor any peers nor any instructors took observation and action until an outsider (in this case, a mother in Ohio) begged an influential friend to help. The AOC didn't notice. The roommate didn't. Or if they did, they were assuaged by the reassurance of "I'm fine, just give me time to heal."
I don't know. Maybe this is a story that this sort of behavior has been going on since at least 1993, and probably since 1959. In my case, I don't view it as other people's fault, but maybe I should. Commanders need to be all-over the healthcare of their people. And maybe my commander was, but maybe I was better at masking it.
My story is definitely not unique. It's probably happening this very instance at the Academies.
I am all-for a return to a spartan, punishing Academy experience. However, in the case of healthcare, I draw the line.
That being said...
Is correct that we are largely speculating at this point.
I do have personal knowledge of a Firstie at the Zoo who had some sort of very bad respiratory ailment, and it was getting worse weekly. After an initial brush-off by the Clinic, he chose to tough-it-out and let the body heal itself. This Firstie's mother (who knew of worsening condition) was able to track down (through the Command Post) a cadet-friend in another squadron, and she implore this friend to get her son to the hospital. The friend approached the Firstie on a Saturday, accompanied by a couple of other friends, and said, "You're getting worse - not better. We're taking you to the hospital. It's not open for discussion." Well, he had bronchitis that developed into pneumonia. I got better within a couple of days at the hospital.
The Morals...
If Firsties, that walk like gods at the Academy, are sometimes highly resistant/stubborn to seeking medical care, then try to remember what it was like when we were Four Degrees.
Young people usually believe they tough-out any sort of sickness. Especially if they are athletic and fit.
No one in the leadership nor any peers nor any instructors took observation and action until an outsider (in this case, a mother in Ohio) begged an influential friend to help. The AOC didn't notice. The roommate didn't. Or if they did, they were assuaged by the reassurance of "I'm fine, just give me time to heal."
I don't know. Maybe this is a story that this sort of behavior has been going on since at least 1993, and probably since 1959. In my case, I don't view it as other people's fault, but maybe I should. Commanders need to be all-over the healthcare of their people. And maybe my commander was, but maybe I was better at masking it.
My story is definitely not unique. It's probably happening this very instance at the Academies.
I am all-for a return to a spartan, punishing Academy experience. However, in the case of healthcare, I draw the line.
ZoomieFrom1994
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First, I want to say my thoughts and prayers are with the Koonce family.
How sad….how tragic.
:-(
I cannot imagine being a parent and losing a child, any child, at any age, but even more so for such a bright and promising child with all that potential.
Second, are cadets prohibited from calling an ambulance, directly, to the cadet area?
Third, is there any sort of medical training / first aid training that cadets receive that say, for example:
“If your temperature reaches 105*F, go to the USAFA hospital’s ER…NOW!”
“If you are coughing up blood, go to the USAFA hospital’ ER….NOW!"
“If you have a headache that lasts a half hour, take two Tylenol.”
“If you have a headache / neck ache that lasts more than a day to a few days and Tylenol doesn’t help, go to the ER….NOW!”
Etcetera, etcetera….
Fourth, can cadets go to a civilian hospital’s ER in Colorado Springs?
Fifth, as far as HIPAA goes, there is a military command exception to the medical privacy protected by HIPAA. Also, depending on Colorado state law, death certificates and toxicology reports become public information.
Sixth and lastly, I do suspect that some heads are going to roll. Where that “buck” will stop, I have no idea.
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The chronic cough thing I find odd to mention. When we met her before basic - she definitely did not have a cough. We were at a track dinner for almost 2 hours. Most of the basics developed a cough because they were sick. Is that what they were referring to?
ZoomieFrom1994
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As far as the food comment goes, I read about the lack of beef or steak on another forum. The cadets came off sounding like whining prima donnas.
I am kind of old “skool”, so if I was Supt for a month or so, my response would be to make sure 10 cases of MRE’s got dropped off at each CQ desk.
As far as the healthcare comment goes, this is information from 30+ years ago, but we had firsties and two degrees as both first BCT and second BCT cadre who where specially trained “counselors”. Their job was mainly to keep tabs on basic cadets’s mental health…to a degree. One would think that back then, these “counselors” would also advocate for their overall health and welfare as well. I would be curious if such a program is still in existence today, and if so are Basics made aware that they can go to these cadets to ask for help and/or advocate for them?
I would say for a kid who is away from home for an extended period and likely for the first time, it's hard to know when to call 911. And if you are very sick and out of it - you are probably not thinking straight. I also am guessing because of the standards set for cadets they would probably feel embarrassed to call 911 and to cause a big hoopla on the base. This of course should not be the case - I am just theorizing.
Ridiculous that at a school of only 4000 they can't handle healthcare properly. I know my daughter has said on more than one occasion that the clinic was full.
USAFAGradMom
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Her parents were there for Parents Weekend just a few days before she passed away so I'm assuming she had access to a car (and the input of her parents) over that weekend. Obviously, things took a turn for the worse very quickly after PW
AimHighMom
Proud Mom of a USAFA '29 appointee
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I assumed the “chronic cough” had been since basic. It’s called chronic if it has been more than a few weeks.
USAFA is rightfully difficult. Is it right or difficult to have appropriately trained medical staff amongst the cadet ranks to observe and be available when there are cadets obviously struggling medically? What is the primary mission of 10 ABW? Is it not the 4,000+ cadets? Why is there such a small clinic contigent on the hill seeming to always be overwhelmed and a hospital 1 mile away that is all but out of reach to the cadets (half with no vehicle rights, mired in training, academics, restrictions, stigma, rules and responsibilities)? I suspect the tightening of the reigns with the incoming leadership didn't help the situation. Yes, these are military trainees, but they are also young human beings with less than normal control over their own lives. They require better than this.