Wow, AFA Losing Cadets!

Apparently.
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LineInTheSand said:
I'm having so much trouble following this thread.
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Summary for LITS:
  • News reports high attrition rate at AFA Class of 2019 BCT
  • Reporter does a really bad job of reporting numbers (I mean a really bad job)
  • We all agree it’s pretty close to average
  • Discussion evolves to why DORs and Med Turn backs are happening
  • Discussion devolves into my opinion your opinion
  • We all agree that targeting of cadets and mids can happen but rare
  • We all agree that there are safe guards in place to mitigate those events
  • We all agree that it’s not a perfect system and may need tweaking
  • We’re still in the my opinion your opinion stage

Upcoming event
  • A mod showing up telling us to chill out.
 
Let me summarize:
1. We may or may not have had cadre overstep, abuse their authority.
2. We may or may not have had a substandard basic.

Can this thread please end?
 
Freda'sMom said:
Point 1: Why aren't you as a parent taking "corrective actions" and "spending more time talk to people at the Academy"?
As a parent, it has been made patently obvious to me that my opinion, thoughts, input and ideas are not welcome at the Academy (putting that grammar thread to use with capitalization of Academy:) ). The only thing that matters is monetary donations to the AOG. Other than a monetary donation, I have no value. Thus, what would be the point of my speaking up when no one at the Academy cares or wants to listen to a parent? If I ever doubted the importance of my point of view, I would only have to ask here and be quickly "put in my place." Also, it is all said and done. There is no going back after the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed on the form-34.
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It not as simple as you make it out to be, as nothing is abosolute. There are areas where you opinion, thoughts, input and ideas that are not welcome at the Academy. A simple example could be in my opinion (not my real opinion) cadets should be allowed to have their cell phones during basic training to keep in touch with loved ones, all cadets should be trainied with M4 rifles or new cadets should be given AFPT on the first day and failures should be sent home, and etc. Changes happen all the time at the academy, but certain things don't change.

However, if a cadre did something bad, in confidence the cadet told the parent but not the chain of command, and looking out for the child's well being, the parent contacted an academy official (I am prettys sure parents are given various POCs), what would happen? I don't think the answer will be, we dont' care.

Another challenge is providing the input by right person and means. You could ask your Congressman's help (aka Congressional). I can't remember what the time line is but I believe without an extension the military has to respond to a Congressional inquiry within 45 days. Answering a Congressional inquiry could include corrective actions taken to address the inquiry. A local parents club or local alumni society usually have multiple connections.

Lastly, AOG is not the Academy.
 
I like when people call for threads to be closed…. as if someone is holding a gun to their heads…. "you must continue to read…. and not go on to something more productive."

I don't like Rachel Maddow on MSNBC…. but instead of trying to get her show taken off the air….. I just don't watch it.
 
LineInTheSand said:
I like when people call for threads to be closed…. as if someone is holding a gun to their heads…. "you must continue to read…. and not go on to something more productive."

I don't like Rachel Maddow on MSNBC…. but instead of trying to get her show taken off the air….. I just don't watch it.
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Read this thread OR ELSE!

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I admit I got out of line bringing up the ancestral tree. I should have not been so childish and stooped to a tit for tat exchange. I apologize to the group for that. I also apologize to 84Grad19Dad as well.

What I don't understand is why people who are no longer interested just don't stop reading? How is posting cartoons and making snarky comments towards those engaged in this discussion the higher road? Really, I don't see such actions any better or superior than those who have engaged in active discussion here. These "just drop it" mocking posts make my" military family tree" post look mature.
 
MombaBomba said:
How is posting cartoons and making snarky comments towards those engaged in this discussion the higher road? Really, I don't see such actions any better or superior than those who have engaged in active discussion here. These "just drop it" mocking posts make my" military family tree" post look mature.
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MombaBomba, I meant no ill will and definitely do not consider it taking the high road. I just wanted to bring a little levity to the situation as it started to get a little personal for posters and the point of passing along useful information seemed to get lost in the banter. We all need a little more humor these days, especially in this SA environment, from those just applying to those in the midst of academic cadet life right up to the parents who support them. :D
 
Boozebin said:
LineInTheSand said:
I'm having so much trouble following this thread.
Click to expand...

Summary for LITS:
  • News reports high attrition rate at AFA Class of 2019 BCT
  • Reporter does a really bad job of reporting numbers (I mean a really bad job)
  • We all agree it’s pretty close to average
  • Discussion evolves to why DORs and Med Turn backs are happening
  • Discussion devolves into my opinion your opinion
  • We all agree that targeting of cadets and mids can happen but rare
  • We all agree that there are safe guards in place to mitigate those events
  • We all agree that it’s not a perfect system and may need tweaking
  • We’re still in the my opinion your opinion stage

Upcoming event
  • A mod showing up telling us to chill out.
Click to expand...

My opinion at this point:
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And the individual appears to have been caught and is being prosecuted - if I read it correctly - suggesting the system "worked".



Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app
 
MombaBomba said:
My last post on this topic....

Bullying can't go on during BCT at the Academy, but selling and distributing drugs can......

http://gazette.com/air-force-academ...king-distributing-using-drugs/article/1557338

Leaves one to wonder how many things might have gone on that didn't get caught. But then if it wasn't caught, did it really happen?
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The difference is, selling drugs is "Against The Law" and the UCMJ.

Making a cadet "Cry" and want to go home to mommy, "Isn't".
 
No one has said that bullying, hazing, or other actions similar can't go on at the academy. Simply saying, that's it's not common, and more "Unlikely" than "Likely".

And, unless a trainee complains about it properly, and the issue becomes known to the proper people, nothing can be done about it. Just like the drugs. Until someone becomes aware of it, no much can be done.
 
Christcorp said:
The difference is, selling drugs is "Against The Law" and the UCMJ.

Making a cadet "Cry" and want to go home to mommy, "Isn't".
Click to expand...

Oh boy.

This demeaning and pejorative language really isn't necessary. Why would you want to infantilize a cadet that quits? But its just as well as its another indication of something uglier that has developed in this thread. In looking at other threads, I see it is present elsewhere too.

My issue has moved well beyond what cadre can and can't do or what they have and haven't done. I've said my piece on the subject, you've said yours, and we disagree. That's fine. I can live with it. My world will not come crashing down. But I have found some will go to great lengths to advance their position, including the use of language and tactics shown above and some even more egregious behaviour. I became involved in this thread again not to debate the cadre and training issue, but to address this ugliness. I've made mention of it before and I will do it again. You keep tap dancing around it trying to deflect the issue. So here goes again. In one of your replies to Fredas Mom, you included the following quotation: "we intentionally broke rules, intentionally lied, and intentionally covered up our actions of forcing kids to quit, where they had no recourse but to quit." You indicated that cadre said these words to Fredas Mom. The quotation marks are yours. Others then accused Freda's mom of some type of negligence because she didn't report this very specific behaviour in some way. In fact, what she said was far less imflammatory and far less specific. Again I've addressed in in previous posts and won't do so here. But I also recognize that it's easier to discredit someone if you put outrageous words in their mouth. Even after seeing this, however, I was willing to let it drop. But then other forum members began questioning Freda's Mom's credibility, not based on what she said, but based solely on what YOU said. The language they used was almost identical to the wording you used in your fabricated quote. So your actions had two effects, you directly tried to discredit Freda's Mom in what I consider to be an dishonest manner and then subsequently caused others to question Freda's Mom's credibility as well because they took your assertion of what was said in good faith. So let's set the record straight, shall we?

Now, I can't speak for AFA, but I know of at least one SA where if it is discovered that a cadet turns in a paper with a fabricated quote to support their position then sanctions will follow. Usually, there would be an honor board investigation and hearing and likely further administration action by higher ups. Likewise, fabricating quotes would result in sanctions for authors publishing in academic journals. This also is not acceptable at most (all?) civilian colleges and universities. I would expect that it would also not be acceptable here. But then again, this is just a forum.
 
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