I am currently an AS 300 under disenrollment investigation. I joined in as a crosstown AS 250. I have a 3.8 GPA and a 98 PT score. I haven’t done anything illegal. I am a non scholarship cadet. I am under disenrollment investigation because my Commander feels my leadership skills will not be where they need to commission next year as an LT. He said nothing should stop me from being able to enlist but can anyone confirm this? I owe the government no money. Can I still enlist because the military is all I want to do and I went to college because of ROTC. I duel enrolled in High School thats why I started as an AS250.
AFROTC Disenrollment Investigation
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Pima
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I cannot say affirmatively that you won't be able to enlist, but I can't see why not. The reason I say that is because 1 of the options for contracted cadets that the AF has is to require enlistment as payback, albeit that is rarely ever used. My advice would be to speak to a local recruiter.
I understand you want to serve, and I respect that, but you should think about this logically also.
1. College you get to choose your academic career and where you attend school.
~ ADAF will make the final decision regarding your career and where you will be assigned. How do you feel about being a maintainer at Eilson (Fairbanks AK)? Or maybe life support at Laughlin (Del Rio aka He!! Rio TX)? Accounting and Finance staff at Vance (Oklahoma)? Those are real possibilities because it always comes down to service before self and the needs of the AF.
~ Caveat, yes it also depends on your degree, but let's say you are a poli sci major, where would your specialty land?
2. Pay is much lower. Talk to the recruiter regarding what rank they will bring you in as.
~ Do you have student loans? Look up DFAS for that rank and run the numbers, remember to remove taxes, add in the silly things, like student loan, car payment, car insurance, groceries, cell phone bill, gasoline, etc. Of course add in some fun money too, such as going to the movies, eating at Chipotle, buying clothes and flying home to visit the family.
~ As much as you may want to serve, is going ADAF over enlisting in the ANG a financially smart decision? ANG you can serve on the weekends, and yet still get to move forward with your civilian professional career.
3. Why AFROTC usually doesn't offer the enlistment option over the payback is simple.
~ Sometimes it is hard for that military member to get in the right mindset. IE in their eyes only a yr or two earlier they were on the path via AFROTC to be an officer giving orders instead of taking them as an enlisted member. It can create bad morale if they are not in the right frame of mind.
I hope it all works out for you.
I understand you want to serve, and I respect that, but you should think about this logically also.
1. College you get to choose your academic career and where you attend school.
~ ADAF will make the final decision regarding your career and where you will be assigned. How do you feel about being a maintainer at Eilson (Fairbanks AK)? Or maybe life support at Laughlin (Del Rio aka He!! Rio TX)? Accounting and Finance staff at Vance (Oklahoma)? Those are real possibilities because it always comes down to service before self and the needs of the AF.
~ Caveat, yes it also depends on your degree, but let's say you are a poli sci major, where would your specialty land?
2. Pay is much lower. Talk to the recruiter regarding what rank they will bring you in as.
~ Do you have student loans? Look up DFAS for that rank and run the numbers, remember to remove taxes, add in the silly things, like student loan, car payment, car insurance, groceries, cell phone bill, gasoline, etc. Of course add in some fun money too, such as going to the movies, eating at Chipotle, buying clothes and flying home to visit the family.
~ As much as you may want to serve, is going ADAF over enlisting in the ANG a financially smart decision? ANG you can serve on the weekends, and yet still get to move forward with your civilian professional career.
3. Why AFROTC usually doesn't offer the enlistment option over the payback is simple.
~ Sometimes it is hard for that military member to get in the right mindset. IE in their eyes only a yr or two earlier they were on the path via AFROTC to be an officer giving orders instead of taking them as an enlisted member. It can create bad morale if they are not in the right frame of mind.
I hope it all works out for you.
@Pima did a great job of discussing the big picture from a total life earnings standpoint, so I will not add any further to that.
However, I'll provide the counterpoint below as an AF officer who was prior-enlisted.
In the long run, he is probably saving your butt from a rough start to your career as an immature (in the military sense-- that is not an insult) and unprepared lieutenant.
Go enlist, pick an AFSC that excites you. Get a year or two under your belt, and after you get your 5-level, start working on finishing your degree. While on Active Duty, you will receive 100% of your tuition free, and as an E-4 and below you will have plenty of time on your hands.
Finish your degree, sew on Staff Sergeant around the 4-5 year mark, and start putting in packages to go to OTS.
If you cannot/do not want to go into OTS, you can also look at flying helicopters for the Army as a Warrant Officer-- very cool career path that many prior-enlisted Airman go down.
You will come out of this experience in much stronger shape than you are leaving it now.
As for ANG/Reserves, if you ever wish to serve full-time, stay away from ANG and Reserves for now. It is very difficult to go from ANG/Reserves to Active Duty. The reverse path is incredibly easy.
However, I'll provide the counterpoint below as an AF officer who was prior-enlisted.
So it sounds like you are 19 years old at most. I would agree with your commander-- 19/20 is incredibly young to be a commissioned officer (outside of wartime anyway). The few sub-21 year old 2nd Lt's I've met in my career have all been phenomenal for their age, but still lagged their peers of the same rank. A lot of maturity and development happens between 18 and 22/23. I do not think your commander's opinion is an indictment on you, rather it is acknowledging that he thinks you need a few more years to develop more before commissioning-- you know, like almost everyone else has.
In the long run, he is probably saving your butt from a rough start to your career as an immature (in the military sense-- that is not an insult) and unprepared lieutenant.Kid, you are golden, then. Which brings me to my next point.
Yes. Unless your commandant axes you on the way out or botches your discharge order, you will be okay to enlist, and that is probably the absolute best thing you can do right now. Sit down, and talk to him. Make him aware that to commission in the future, you will need a waiver, and therefore are asking that he take care to give you a discharge recommendation based more on your current age/station in life, and less on whether you are a crappy leader right now at this point in time as an 18/19 year old.
Go enlist, pick an AFSC that excites you. Get a year or two under your belt, and after you get your 5-level, start working on finishing your degree. While on Active Duty, you will receive 100% of your tuition free, and as an E-4 and below you will have plenty of time on your hands.
Finish your degree, sew on Staff Sergeant around the 4-5 year mark, and start putting in packages to go to OTS.
If you cannot/do not want to go into OTS, you can also look at flying helicopters for the Army as a Warrant Officer-- very cool career path that many prior-enlisted Airman go down.
You will come out of this experience in much stronger shape than you are leaving it now.
As for ANG/Reserves, if you ever wish to serve full-time, stay away from ANG and Reserves for now. It is very difficult to go from ANG/Reserves to Active Duty. The reverse path is incredibly easy.
Pima
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To me, as a parent, this would be very important for your future from leaving every door/window open aspect.
As Tbpxece stated if you try to go OTS further down the line, they will directly ask you if you have ever been in a commissioning source program, such as, AFROTC. It will have a follow up of yes, why did you leave. You will need to submit your disenrollment paperwork. Hence, why Tbpxece is stating make sure it is more about at this point in your life due to age, and not that he feels even with age you are incompatible with the AF from a leadership perspective.
I would also talk to the folks too. If they release you, is it smart to enlist now, instead of waiting until next spring right after graduation? As Tbpxece stated later on you can apply for tuition assistance. This works even for your grad degree (you could do it on base education building, on line or off base), you just will do it at night.
~ Importance of this, is if you finish your degree, go enlisted, you can start/finish your grad degree and will be competitive with your peer group if you decide to leave by the ripe old age of 28, but the AF will pick up the bill. On top of that as an AF member with experience, and probably with some level of security clearance, many contractors, defense companies and GS jobs will look at your resume compared to the candidate that is 25, fresh out of grad school, only internships as their work experience.
rdhdstpchld
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Why disenroll - why not delay/have you repeat your 300 year? It sounds more involved than just your age from here. Did you come straight out of HS into the cadet corps? and they let you in as a 250? It just sounds....off. Do they think you're too young or you don't have the right "stuff" to be an O? Either way I would be looking way further than just that "um, we don't think you'll be ready" next year - your disenrollment package has to go to the regional and then up to AFROTC/CC, so at least it will be sanity checked along the way. DO NOT opt out of putting your reply in the package - have your say and if you disagree, SAY SO. That's your chance to plead your case to higher up. A detachment commander can only recommend - he/she cannot disenroll you themselves if you're a POC.
It is true, I started right into the cadet corps right after high school because I had the duel enrollment credits that made me a sophomore. I made investigation package defense and had several witnesses make detailed statements on my behalf.
@Pima did a great job of discussing the big picture from a total life earnings standpoint, so I will not add any further to that.
However, I'll provide the counterpoint below as an AF officer who was prior-enlisted.
So it sounds like you are 19 years old at most. I would agree with your commander-- 19/20 is incredibly young to be a commissioned officer (outside of wartime anyway). The few sub-21 year old 2nd Lt's I've met in my career have all been phenomenal for their age, but still lagged their peers of the same rank. A lot of maturity and development happens between 18 and 22/23. I do not think your commander's opinion is an indictment on you, rather it is acknowledging that he thinks you need a few more years to develop more before commissioning-- you know, like almost everyone else has.
Kid, you are golden, then. Which brings me to my next point.
Yes. Unless your commandant axes you on the way out or botches your discharge order, you will be okay to enlist, and that is probably the absolute best thing you can do right now. Sit down, and talk to him. Make him aware that to commission in the future, you will need a waiver, and therefore are asking that he take care to give you a discharge recommendation based more on your current age/station in life, and less on whether you are a crappy leader right now at this point in time as an 18/19 year old.
Go enlist, pick an AFSC that excites you. Get a year or two under your belt, and after you get your 5-level, start working on finishing your degree. While on Active Duty, you will receive 100% of your tuition free, and as an E-4 and below you will have plenty of time on your hands.
Finish your degree, sew on Staff Sergeant around the 4-5 year mark, and start putting in packages to go to OTS.
If you cannot/do not want to go into OTS, you can also look at flying helicopters for the Army as a Warrant Officer-- very cool career path that many prior-enlisted Airman go down.
You will come out of this experience in much stronger shape than you are leaving it now.
As for ANG/Reserves, if you ever wish to serve full-time, stay away from ANG and Reserves for now. It is very difficult to go from ANG/Reserves to Active Duty. The reverse path is incredibly easy.
Thank you for this reply. While talking to my commander, he said their is no way for him to know where I’ll be a couple years down the road to be an officer, but as of now he feels I’m not ready. He and my NCO cadre all brought up the idea of enlistment if military service is what I want right now. So I think he isn’t going to try and botch me up. He said I don’t have any character defects or anything that should prevent enlistment.
I agree with your statement about waiting till I’m an NCO to try again. Thank you
Happy to help! Take care to exit well and avoid burning bridges. It's a small Air Force and odds are decent you will wind up serving under one of your former ROTC classmates.
You will be leaving ROTC, sure, but you'll go from being an unprepared 19/20 year old cadet to being a very prepared 19/20 year old basic trainee, student Airman, and junior enlisted Airman. Use your ROTC experience thus far to set yourself apart during the training phase of your enlisted career and view it as a positive experience-- not as a setback. I assume at this point, you know how to march, know how to read/understand rank, know how to conduct yourself with proper military bearing, and how to prioritize your education. That immediately puts you a year or two ahead of all your enlisted peers.
Good luck, kid. I'm happy to hear you still wish to serve, and very glad to hear you have no hard feelings about the AF.
Thank you, I could never have hard feelings for my branch, I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t screwed from doing what I’ve always wanted to do.
Personally, I would fight the disenrollment and the idea of quiting school and finishing it later on the the AF's dime seems crazy to me. If age is the issue, then maybe you should graduate, work a couple of years and then either join the Guard or go through OTS. Since you arent on scholarship, there is no law that say you cant slow down the college process and add some more time to being in school. Looks like the big issue is that you started as a 250 and dont have enough time to develop. By slowing down college, you can add more time. I dont know if that is feasible, but it is an idea
Pima
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He is not on scholarship, but he is actually contracted as a POC in AFROTC, scholarship or not. He is a 300, which means he went to SFT last summer. Come fall he would be a 400, with the expectation that he would commission next May.
~ My assumption is they are going non-rated. Rated boards, as you know Humey occur right now for 300s. Non-rated occur in the fall. Thus, the CoC's hands are tied since the OP is currently a POC and according to HQ AFROTC would commission May 2020. He can try to slow it down all he wants, but he is contracted. Every cadet that completes SFT is contracted the 1st day of their 300 yr when they pass the PFT. Only difference is HQ AFROTC is not paying their tuition or books.
My guess is maybe the CoC could ask for them to become a 700 if they slowed them down, but there is a huge piece of the puzzle missing. Non-tech, non-rated? Tech, non-rated, etc. It is really rare to have a 700, 500s are rare, 700s make the 500s look like they are as common as 250s.
I see your point. The real problem is that he shouldnt have started as a 250 based on his age
Pima
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@Airman101 out of curiosity are you a non-tech/non-rated cadet?
Non rated sir.
Non tech ma’am. My apologies.
My 2 cents, ask them for specifics about what specifically they think you need to mature in before you commission. Just saying you're not ready for leadership is vague and unhelpful. It's also not a very solid foundation for disenrolling someone unless there's a piece to this that you're not telling us. I'd fight it if I were you. I also would speak with your parents before you decide to drop out of college a year before graduation to enlist....that's not a great decision to make unless you have no other choice. I've yet to meet anyone that delayed education that didn't wish they had just gotten it out of the way sooner. You're parents should have your best interests at heart....more so than any stranger or recruiter.
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@bgrant I believe, because of the number of credit hours the OP had went entering the program he is on a 2 year AFROTC track. I think their issue is that there hasn't be enough opportunities for leadership billets in the time frame. Of course if that's the case then one has to ask why they have a 2 year program. I don't think they're saying the OP himself is immature but that his leadership skills haven't had an opportunity to mature, at least in a way that they can see it. A lot of surmise on my part but I'd bet important body parts on that.
Pima
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Kinnem, he is on a 3 yr track. He would commission @21. Basically, it would be akin to any college kid that is a walk on as a sophomore, aka why he started as a 250. 250's basically combine freshmen/sophomore AFROTC together.
I am not sure I agree that he hasn't had enough leadership. Sorry @Airman101. Yes, he was a walk on as a 250, so probably that fall semester he was given a job like being in charge of a special project bc they didn't expect him. Most fall AS200 jobs are assigned in the spring of their 100 yr. However, by spring semester they would have given him a leadership position, maybe something like the PT flight instructor. Once he returned from SFT as a POC (300) they would have given him a POC position.
~ Our DS's det is considered large by HQ AFROTC with about 250 cadets. However, in his unit, their commissioning class is @30 cadets, 60-70 as POCs. and the bulk are 100/200/250/500. IOWS, POCs, even as a 300 had leadership positions with many cadets reporting to them. The star cadets were being lined up this time of the yr for things like CVWC, CWC, etc.