Appointment acccepted then turned down

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by Em_FLA, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. Capt MJ

    Capt MJ 10-Year Member

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    Glad to hear he has not only a viable but an excellent option.

    Give yourself a break on the reporting thing, and avoid woulda coulda shoulda, if you can. The PTR, in the Health Status section, requires reporting any changes since the DODMERB exam.

    OCS is worth considering, and is also a highly competitive program, as OCS seats vary with the needs of the Navy. Fewer seats will be available if the Navy meets its intake goals from USNA, NROTC and other commissioning paths. The DODMERB officer accession standards are the same, though I think I saw you mention a two-year period post-incident for a waiver consideration.

    Strong STEM performance, stellar GPA, continued fitness and no misconduct will be the foundation for a shot at OCS.

    I realize the wound is still raw, but with a bit of reflection and distance, he may want to consider re-applying to USNA. DODMERB is good for 2 years, for all the other aspects. The waiver process/waiting period might not be set in stone. He might be able to gather additional medical documentation that ameliorates the initial findings. Candidates can and do apply multiple times, slogging through the nom process, updating other materials, etc., and their determination does not go unnoticed.
     
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  2. usna1985

    usna1985 10-Year Member

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    A few thoughts. First, agree with others that someone should make a call to USNA Admissions this morning to understand the situation. Whomever calls (mom or son) should be calm and professional with a "I'm trying to understand what's going on here" approach. It's important to understand if the medical issue is or isn't waiverable for this year and for future years (some medical issues just need time). Having that information will help you decide on next steps this year and beyond.

    Second, for others in this situation, please don't call your BGO. It puts BGOs in an awkward situation as we're not supposed to get involved in medical issues. The above said, contacting USNA was the right thing to do (but the candidate, not the BGO, should have done it). There is a ongoing requirement to notify DODMERB of any change in medical condition and being admitted to the hospital for 2 nights would clearly qualify.

    Third, if this turns out to be a DQ medical condition, it was probably just a matter of time until it showed up. IOW, had your DS started at USNA, it's certainly possible that the condition could have arisen while he was there and the outcome would be the same. So, no one should beat themselves up over what happened.

    Fourth, the timing sucks, but if (and I emphasize that word) your DS's condition is DQ, he can't be in the military. There are many people who live perfectly normal lives but have a condition that makes them unsuitable for military service. I know the instinct is to rail against USNA, the military, etc. But in the end, there's a reason for these decisions, even if they are personally painful.

    Knowledge is power -- arm yourself with information so that you and your DS are in the best position to move forward.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  3. Capt MJ

    Capt MJ 10-Year Member

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    @usna1985
    Best post that sums up the key points - a live discussion to get all the facts TODAY. The key is this never waiverable, or waiverable after X time. That knowledge will inform all future decisions.
     
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  4. Old Navy BGO

    Old Navy BGO 5-Year Member

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    > There is little benefit to trying to diagnose or downplay the issue. It could be completely minor, but it's a major issue until Navy decides otherwise. There is a process for reviewing these things, and unfortunately it takes time.

    > '85 comments are spot on. There is a duty to report changes in medical condition, but for those who who may face the situation in the future (and it probably comes up every year), there is no obligation to report in real time. Knowledge is power, and information gives you that knowledge and power. Wait until the smoke clears, diagnosis and path of treatment (and even outcome) are clear, then contact USNA directly and tell them what happened. Try to present the situation in a way that avoids an automatic DQ --this is where knowledge of the medical regulations and discussion with the treating physician is helpful.

    Great to hear that OP son has a Plan B now.... Do come back and tell us what Admissions has to say !
     
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  5. WaveThatFlag

    WaveThatFlag Member

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    Not all schools "react harshly." My DS's Plan B told us "a deposit is just a deposit," and "this happens all the time." All he has to do is rescind his acceptance and/or not pay his tuition bill, and he will be considered dis-enrolled. For regular (i.e. not early decision) admissions, it is NOT a binding contract, at least at this school.
     
  6. jl123

    jl123 Member

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    Most colleges do take the high road and wish the student well. But it is wise to prepare for one that takes the low road.

    Regular vs Early decision does not come into play in this issue. For every student applying through the Common Application and most other application methods, there is a written agreement not to be committed to more than one school after May 1st.

    Most who get caught do so by calling Plan B and telling them that DS/DD got through summer training and will be going to SA rather than Plan B. Rule #1: Never give a reason for withdrawal from Plan B, unless Plan B knows they are the backup. Send an email simply stating student will not be attending and ask for acknowledgement of withdrawal. They will assume student got admitted from waitlist of another school.
     
  7. parentalunit2

    parentalunit2 5-Year Member

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    Would love to see proof of that last bit. It's tossed around on this board a lot, but I have never seen it come to fruition, here, or anywhere.
     
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  8. Old Navy BGO

    Old Navy BGO 5-Year Member

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    I recall seeing one , very specific , story on here a while back. However, I am confident that a College could draft an acceptance document into a binding , 4 year contract , with the College performance excused if student is terminated for bad grades or misconduct. ( I'm also pretty confident that there would be a significant backlash if any college tried to enforce such contract). The bottom line is simple, unless you want to run the risk of fighting with a college over lost tuition, read and understand everything you sign.
     
  9. falconchic88

    falconchic88 5-Year Member

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    And therein lies key. Aside from the fact that Service Academies don't utilize the Common App If you look at the wording of the "agreement", it basically says you can't put a deposit down on two schools, ie "double depositing". A deposit is not required for a SA, so no double depositing, therefor there is nothing ethically wrong with putting a deposit on a plan B school, and then attending a service academy.
     
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  10. NJROTC-CC

    NJROTC-CC Member

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    I recall a story on here, that I believe involved Arizona State, in which the University turned the matter over to a collection agency to collect for a year's worth of tuition and then hounded the applicant for years. This could affect your credit. I think it would be very unlikely that any institution would actually be able to file suit and then win at trial. I would be surprised to hear if that EVER happened.
     
  11. falconchic88

    falconchic88 5-Year Member

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    To the OP, I'm very sorry this happened. Please don't beat yourself up, a hospital stay does require notification to admissions, so it would have had to have been done eventually. I'm happy his plan B school is being so welcoming, that is very encouraging, and helps make a horrible situation maybe a bit easier to navigate. Prayers of strength and resilience for you and your family. If I had to guess, I would think USNA Medical keyed in on the "scar tissue" comment by your doctor being the possible cause and determined this wasn't a one time only occurrence, but something that could become a chronic situation.

    My Advice to other candidate/appointee parents fwiw: if your child has a reportable change in medical status after DODMERB or Appointment, take some time to get a full diagnosis and prognosis, preferably with a doctors note clearing them for unrestricted military duty, prior to notifying Admissions. The most complete package you can submit when notifying them (which according to Permit to Report package, should be by email) the better off your appointee will be.
     
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  12. Impulsive

    Impulsive Member

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    I am VERY glad your son was able to get back to Plan B, Congrats and now maybe you all can breathe. Florida is a REALLY good State regarding Universities, especially if the student is a Bright Futures Academic Scholar (top tier). Our understanding (HS guidance dept.) is that if you are in the top 5% of your Class, State Universities in Florida are almost required to accept you, if you apply before July 1st. Both our sons' are still getting emails from schools in State that they expressed interest in telling them there is still time and offering tons of financial aid. If your son's medical is indeed waiverable after two years or less, he can still do NROTC, you do not have to attain "Advanced Standing" or a Scholarship until the start of your junior year. The Commission is the same (regular Navy), just minus the ring. May be another option, it seems like almost all Florida universities either have or share ROTC programs.
     
  13. TBK2023

    TBK2023 Member

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    Em
    I feel for you terribly. My DS was rejected his first attempt, and went to MMI as a self prep. He improved his immensely after a year of prep but was waitlisted and ultimately rejected again but realized he was close so applied a third time and was accepted to all in which he applied. MMI has a great prep program and the prepsters are many times more squared away than high schoolers thus had a easier time to adjust. There were several kids medically DQ and worked it out during the year to arrive at their respective academies a year older and more mature, with still full 4 year eligibility. Just FYI
     
  14. jl123

    jl123 Member

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    A search of the forum finds this info pretty easily in past threads.
    1. I post every year on this subject to help others avoid the experience I was involved with. A few years ago a candidate's parent called me after following some really bad advice from this forum. They got caught "double committing" by their high school college counselor who received a list of students from Plan B of all that high school's students who were committed to the Plan B college. Counselor was a member of National Association of College Admissions Counselors, whose ethics standards consider double committing an ethics violation. After much apologizing and pleading ignorance, counselor agreed not to report violation to SA as long as Plan B acceptance was immediately withdrawn.
    2. Another forum member posted his daughter's experience at having Plan B send her account to a collection agency for lost tuition.
    3. A mother posted about calling Plan B informing them student just completed summer training and would be going to SA instead of Plan B and angry admissions officer said he was reporting them to SA.
     
  15. NJROTC-CC

    NJROTC-CC Member

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    But as has been asked before “will the SA even care?”
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  16. jl123

    jl123 Member

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    • The fact that the SA's don't use the Common App is irrelevant. The agreement is with Plan B.
    • The word "deposit" is often misconstrued and is why I use "commitment" instead. The language very specifically defines the consummation of the agreement to be any form of demonstrating an intention to enroll, not just placing a deposit.
     
  17. jl123

    jl123 Member

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    1. Until the SA's publish a policy on this issue, not a single person on this forum can answer that question.
    2. Would a commissioned officer care about ethical standards of the National Association of College Admissions Counselors? (All SA's are members)
    3. Does anyone want their kid to be the test case?
     
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  18. NJROTC-CC

    NJROTC-CC Member

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    I personally would contact Plan B schools in advance and would find one that would understand and agree to be Plan B. I would sleep better. Shouldn’t be that hard to find a school willing to take a shot at a great candidate. Also, a great candidate could still tranfer after freshman year to a better Plan B school.
     
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  19. OldRetSWO

    OldRetSWO USNA 78/parent 11/BGO for >25yrs 5-Year Member

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    That was me. My daughter was accepted at two schools (not service academys) and we put deposits down on both. She made her decision between them and notified both. The school she did not choose evidently did not get or lost her note on this and started billing her for a full year (2 semesters) Room and Board plus tuition. Its been over 8 yrs and the collection agencies still sporadically bug her.
     
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  20. USMAROTCFamily

    USMAROTCFamily 5-Year Member

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    I posted this earlier in the year:

    Technically, the College Board is a not-for-profit organization. While the College Board uses the language that students can't double-deposit, they also state it is unethical to "Tell more than one college that it's their first choice." So even though the academies don't require a deposit, then the students are violating this if they accept admission to an academy and to a civilian school. Additionally, the National Association of College Admission Counseling (NACAC) states: "Members must inform students and families of their ethical responsibilities in the admission process, including counseling students that it is unethical to:maintain an active enrollment deposit or the equivalent at more than one US college. (It is understood that students admitted conditionally to colleges outside the US may have no more than one active deposit per country.)" and "must inform students that they should notify colleges once they have decided to decline their offers of admission." Every single one of the 5 academies are members of NACAC. We have already seen confirmation this year of at least USNA withdrawing a candidates application this year to somebody whom violated the rules for Early Decision. On NACAC's website they also state: "NACAC encourages members to submit a complaint whenever they believe that a violation of the Statements of Principal of Good Practice (SPGP): NACAC’s Code of Ethics and Professional Practices has occurred. Nonmembers—including parents and students—are also encouraged to submit complaints. Complaints may be submitted directly to NACAC via its online Confidential Complaint Form or to the national or affiliate Admission Practices (AP) Committees. All complaints are investigated in the strictest confidence." Do we really want to inform those on this forum to violate this?
     
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