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riroka

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My sons will be attending their best friends graduation from Air Force Basic training in January. One son is AROTC (MS IV), the other is a 200 AFROTC. The friend graduating was told my boys should be in uniform. Can anyone help me out and tell me which uniform? Thanks!!
 
First off, I would have your boy's check with their cadre. If they are OK with your Boys wearing their uniform while on break, then it should be their dress uniform. They shouldn't be showing up to ceremonues in duty uniform or PTs.
 
riroka said:
My sons will be attending their best friends graduation from Air Force Basic training in January. One son is AROTC (MS IV), the other is a 200 AFROTC. The friend graduating was told my boys should be in uniform. Can anyone help me out and tell me which uniform? Thanks!!
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riroka: despite what their friend was told, I do not think ROTC students should be wearing a uniform to this event.

In my experience, unless they are traveling under orders or at an official ROTC event they should not wear the uniforms. This goes back to my personal experience and those of my son who is a current NROTC student.

This will sound bad, but I was always under the understanding that ROTC students are a not really a part of the "real" military (except when traveling under orders) and as such, don't have the right to wear the uniform outside of school and official functions. I am sure that is nowhere near correct - just my limited understanding. I never questioned it and never gave it another thought ... until now.

Others - more knowledgeable then I - will weigh in with good advice.
 
clarksonarmy said:
First off, I would have your boy's check with their cadre. If they are OK with your Boys wearing their uniform while on break, then it should be their dress uniform. They shouldn't be showing up to ceremonues in duty uniform or PTs.
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Well there you go. Great input from clarsonarmy.

He sure trumps me.
 
Service Dress.

I will say this, my friend's DS commissioned in Sept via OCS. His Dad is a retired AF O5. He wore a suit for the commissioning. (He did not pin on his DS). It is a big shindig for a few days, they have a dinner the night before, so find out what he wants them to wear for that.
~~~ Friends DH, father of DS wore his Mess Dress, as did his DS for that night. IOWs it maybe he is talking about that function (Dining Out) instead of the commissioning. It will be a different uniform than commissioning.

I would think your AFROTC 200 does not have a mess dress. In that case it is is his service blues with a bow tie. For AFROTC by 400 (MSIV) the cadets traditionally own a Mess Dress. They usually purchase it as a 300.

They need to ask if this is for the commissioning ceremony, or for the shindig the night prior or BOTH. They will know. The invite they receive is very clear on the attire.
~~~ It will say Dress of the day:
Civilian: XYZ---Suit and Tie
Women: 123--- Cocktail dress
Military: ABC---- Service or Mess

The AF does this for every function.

Hope that helps.
 
Pima said:
Service Dress.

I will say this, my friend's DS commissioned in Sept via OCS. His Dad is a retired AF O5. He wore a suit for the commissioning. (He did not pin on his DS). It is a big shindig for a few days, they have a dinner the night before, so find out what he wants them to wear for that.
~~~ Friends DH, father of DS wore his Mess Dress, as did his DS for that night. IOWs it maybe he is talking about that function (Dining Out) instead of the commissioning. It will be a different uniform than commissioning.

I would think your AFROTC 200 does not have a mess dress. In that case it is is his service blues with a bow tie. For AFROTC by 400 (MSIV) the cadets traditionally own a Mess Dress. They usually purchase it as a 300.

They need to ask if this is for the commissioning ceremony, or for the shindig the night prior or BOTH. They will know. The invite they receive is very clear on the attire.
~~~ It will say Dress of the day:
Civilian: XYZ---Suit and Tie
Women: 123--- Cocktail dress
Military: ABC---- Service or Mess

The AF does this for every function.

Hope that helps.
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hehehe, please don't wear a bow tie, or mess uniform for basic training graduation. You can wear your ROTC dress uniform (with a tie) but honestly, it would be much better if they wore a collared shirt with khakis or something around those lines.
 
I was discussing the graduation dinner. Not the commissioning.

pima said:
It is a big shindig for a few days, they have a dinner the night before, so find out what he wants them to wear for that
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I don't know an O1 that does not own a Mess Dress in the AF, including AFROTC and OCS commissioning. The dinner is a shindig.

AND
pima said:
His Dad is a retired AF O5. He wore a suit
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His Dad could have worn his uniform, but wore a suit.

I am old school. I think a blazer, collared shirt and tie is the least you should wear. It is a big deal to take the oath, and we as guests should give it respect. Going in debt for a suit, not so much, but if you own a suit, than yes, wear it because on that day they are saying I am willing to die so all of you can live.

We need to respect the oath that they take to defend this great country.

Again, the mess dress for OCS is common for the night, and if they are invited for ALL of the festivities, than they need to pack that too.
 
USMCGrunt said:
riroka: despite what their friend was told, I do not think ROTC students should be wearing a uniform to this event.

In my experience, unless they are traveling under orders or at an official ROTC event they should not wear the uniforms. This goes back to my personal experience and those of my son who is a current NROTC student.

This will sound bad, but I was always under the understanding that ROTC students are a not really a part of the "real" military (except when traveling under orders) and as such, don't have the right to wear the uniform outside of school and official functions. I am sure that is nowhere near correct - just my limited understanding. I never questioned it and never gave it another thought ... until now.

Others - more knowledgeable then I - will weigh in with good advice.
Click to expand...

I would endorse USMCGrunt here. Clarkson is correct in checking with cadre. Cadre could grant permission, or they could say no.

Now you have me curious about my DS. Some of DS' friends are commissioning next week at his college. I may be going down for this because my idiot kid ordered a gift for one of them, but had it shipped home instead of his address down there. :biggrin: (It happens to be a whip which will be mounted on a plaque :rolleyes:). So I'm wondering what DS will be wearing. I suspect it will be his dress blues since it's a ROTC event at his own college. We'll see.
 
They are talking about what they should wear to a basic training graduation. Not comissioning ceremony or after comissioning dinner.
 
riroka said:
My sons will be attending their best friends graduation from Air Force Basic training in January. One son is AROTC (MS IV), the other is a 200 AFROTC. The friend graduating was told my boys should be in uniform. Can anyone help me out and tell me which uniform? Thanks!!
Click to expand...


With all due respect... and there is just no way of saying this without sounding like a total jerk... but this question is not an issue a cadet's parent should be concerned with. It's an issue the cadet needs to noodle through on their own through research of regulations. After all, these are the future leaders of America's warrior class. They need to figure out what to wear on their own. In all my years as an Army officer, there was one thing I learned.... There is a regulation written to cover everything!
 
AR 145-1 section 4-5 wearing of the uniform
"ROTC cadets may wear the issue uniform within the United States and its possessions when-
a. Assembled for the purpose of military instruction
b. Engaged in the military instruction of a cadet corps or similar organization
c. Traveling to and from the school where enrolled
d. Visiting a military station for participation in military drill or exercise
e. At other functions authorized by the PMS"

As a basic training graduation does not fall under a-d he will need to get his PMS's authorization to wear a uniform. This is for AROTC but I'm sure AFROTC has a similiar regualtion you can look up.
 
sancontoa said:
AR 145-1 section 4-5 wearing of the uniform
"ROTC cadets may wear the issue uniform within the United States and its possessions when-
a. Assembled for the purpose of military instruction
b. Engaged in the military instruction of a cadet corps or similar organization
c. Traveling to and from the school where enrolled
d. Visiting a military station for participation in military drill or exercise
e. At other functions authorized by the PMS"

As a basic training graduation does not fall under a-d he will need to get his PMS's authorization to wear a uniform. This is for AROTC but I'm sure AFROTC has a similiar regualtion you can look up.
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I remember DS would never wear the uniform unless he absolutely had to. Never wore it on his way to schools like Airborne. I think he felt he wore it enough as a cadet at a SMC .
 
ABF said:
With all due respect... and there is just no way of saying this without sounding like a total jerk... but this question is not an issue a cadet's parent should be concerned with. It's an issue the cadet needs to noodle through on their own through research of regulations. After all, these are the future leaders of America's warrior class. They need to figure out what to wear on their own. In all my years as an Army officer, there was one thing I learned.... There is a regulation written to cover everything!
Click to expand...

I get what you are saying, if the OP asked advice about how to deal with "real" military officer issues for his/her child, e.g., deployments, personnel, training, whatever. But some advice on a forum that soo many people (including parents) come to for advice and popular opinions from people with more knowledge than themselves is not going to affect or hurt these future leaders. I think the OP got the correct answer he/she was looking for from clarksonarmy when he said check with cadre, as well as others chiming in with their experiences. The conversation between OP and his/her children could have gone something like, "we're so excited about the graduation and our friend, should we go in uniform?" Doesn't mean the cadet needs a parent to help them lead nor does it mean the parent is trying to. Maybe during the conversation the parent said, "You go back to studying your calculus, I'll ask on SAF, those guys know everything!" This would be a very small forum if every answer consisted of, "parent, none of your business."
 
kinnem said:
Now you have me curious about my DS. Some of DS' friends are commissioning next week at his college. So I'm wondering what DS will be wearing. I suspect it will be his dress blues since it's a ROTC event at his own college. We'll see.
Click to expand...

Every commissioning I've been to as a cadet, I was asked/told to wear my dress uniform. I'd be surprised if he didn't wear them.
 
kinnem said:
I would endorse USMCGrunt here. Clarkson is correct in checking with cadre. Cadre could grant permission, or they could say no.

Now you have me curious about my DS. Some of DS' friends are commissioning next week at his college. I may be going down for this because my idiot kid ordered a gift for one of them, but had it shipped home instead of his address down there. :biggrin: (It happens to be a whip which will be mounted on a plaque :rolleyes:). So I'm wondering what DS will be wearing. I suspect it will be his dress blues since it's a ROTC event at his own college. We'll see.
Click to expand...

kinnem: I am sure it will be the winter dress uniform (whatever that designation is) - his cadre will dictate the uniform of the day.

My original comments were about the off campus basic training graduation ceremony held on a military base.

I hope you get to stay and attend the commissioning ceremony. Its a big deal.
 
sancontoa said:
AR 145-1 section 4-5 wearing of the uniform
"ROTC cadets may wear the issue uniform within the United States and its possessions when-
a. Assembled for the purpose of military instruction
b. Engaged in the military instruction of a cadet corps or similar organization
c. Traveling to and from the school where enrolled
d. Visiting a military station for participation in military drill or exercise
e. At other functions authorized by the PMS"

As a basic training graduation does not fall under a-d he will need to get his PMS's authorization to wear a uniform. This is for AROTC but I'm sure AFROTC has a similiar regualtion you can look up.
Click to expand...

This is remarkably similar to what I remember regarding NROTC also.
 
Dial,
I get ya... Believe me, I do understand. Like I said originally... my post will make me sound like a total jerk. (Clearly an accurate statement.)

However, it pains me to picutre soldiers having their uniform laid out for them by their moms. As a soldier (with a college bound kid) myself, I like to think our future leaders are handling things sans mom's uniform advice. It also pains me to think some parents believe their cadet still needs that assistance. Heck, at that age, Audie Murphy had already commanded an infantry company in battle, been shot and received the CMH. Your kids may have that kind of mettle.
 
USMCGrunt said:
kinnem: I am sure it will be the winter dress uniform (whatever that designation is) - his cadre will dictate the uniform of the day.

My original comments were about the off campus basic training graduation ceremony held on a military base.

I hope you get to stay and attend the commissioning ceremony. Its a big deal.
Click to expand...

Oh I definitely plan on attending. I've gotten to know some of these guys through DS' comments as well as speaking with them a few times myself at tailgates, etc. Looking forward to being among the first to refer to them as Lt. or Ensign and seeing that confused look on their faces... sorta like when you were first asked "Where is Mrs. Grunt?" on your wedding day and you saying "Oh, my mom is over there!". :biggrin:
 
USMCGrunt said:
This will sound bad, but I was always under the understanding that ROTC students are a not really a part of the "real" military (except when traveling under orders) and as such, don't have the right to wear the uniform outside of school and official functions. I am sure that is nowhere near correct - just my limited understanding. I never questioned it and never gave it another thought ... until now.

Others - more knowledgeable then I - will weigh in with good advice.
Click to expand...

This is nothing against you, simply a response since you posted the above, I thought I would attempt to clarify.

When an AROTC cadet contracts, included in that process is signing of enlistment papers and taking an oath of enlistment. Cadets are "assigned" to the US Army Reserve Control Group (ROTC). If I remember correctly, it's Control Group 303.

As such, contracted cadets are categorized by the Army, according to AR 600-20 Chapter 1-6, shown in Table 1-1. This is the same table that categorizes USMA Cadets and Officer Candidates.

However, in reality, I don't really disagree with how cadets are viewed, being that we are in school, rather than attached to a unit actively drilling. In this case, if approved by the PMS, there isn't really a problem with wearing the uniform to a BMT graduation. I would just wear the cadet rank of C/2LT like cadets do at CTLT/CULP/etc and be prepared to get funny looks or confused questions. Additionally, wearing the uniform would require the cadet to also adhere to all customs and courtesies.

I've been asked by family and friends before to wear a uniform while attending graduations and usually decline, simply because I did not want to detract from those graduating.
 
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