Best way to get into USAFA

"Please understand, the numbers everyone is posting here: speculation, some deduction

Steve, these numbers are from the AFA athletic website. I just added up the totals on the rosters. Cheerleading was the only sport without a roster. Honestly - with only 4,000 cadets at the AFA, how can you say that filling those 800 spots isn't a top priority?
 
ChristCorp, has done a great job of explaining the process; and he has first-hand knowledge with his "firstie" son! And while every recruited IC experience is different, there's enough similarities to form an impression of the "general" process.
Couldn't agree more! However the "general" process does not give him any insight or expertise as to what percentages of athletes are recruited, how many are academic "exceptions" and how many are coming through the Prep school that are "not quite there academically".
Oh, I forgot to add this: those IC's that are "not quite there academically", either in GPA or SAT/ACT? They are the ones you see at the Prep School.
I was under the impression that everyone that completes the Prep School program and wants to attend USAFA....receives an appointment. Is that correct?

Do you think Dr. Hans Meuh will also know how many ICs are at the prep school and how many were Blue Chip, etc...?
Please understand, the numbers everyone is posting here: speculation, some deduction, but mostly speculation.
Absolutely! Thank you for reminding everyone that those that claim to know are simply guessing.
 
Aglages...to answer your questions. "Virtually" everyone that completes the Prep School course of instruction, and that wants to transition to the USAFA, will receive an appointment. There are those "exceptions" that are not offered appointments but that's typically because "something has come up/out" that USAFA decides prevents them from appointment. As for what Dr Meuh would know, as he's the director of Athletics, while he might not have the numbers memorized, I assure you he could pull them up very easily and he would have all of that data available.

Gotaplay2...I think you're missing the point. The academy doesn't sit down with the Admissions branch and Athletics branch and say: "Okay...we have 198 openings on various teams, so we get first dibs on appointments to fill those slots." Believe it or not, there is a legal standard that must be met to be offered an appointment. The finest athlete in America, if they don't meet the legal minimum standards, will NOT be admitted to USAFA, or any SA.

The coaches DO go on recruiting trips and they do find their "desired Blue Chip" athletes and they will make a verbal "offer" to them. BUT then that athlete MUST fulfill all the legal requirements for admission. A basketball player that can make LeBron James look silly on the court is NOT going to get to USAFA with SAT's of 400/400/500. It's not going to happen, no matter how badly the coach wants him.

The USAFA website that tells you that there are "X" number of teams with "Y" number of athletes neither tells you the number that were recruited/Blue Chip, nor the numbers that were "not recruited or walk-on's." FYI, while it may be VERY difficult to "walk on" to the heavily recruited "revenue" sports, the others...it depends upon your skills and the needs of the team. I "walked on" to two teams (soccer, track)...and made both (JV soccer, V track). I wasn't the "best" on either but I made them. Sadly, academics beat me bloody and I had to give up IC sports: graduation was far more important to me.

Finally, how can I say that filling those teams is NOT a top priority? I won't say it's not important, but it's not the top priority: finding the finest young men and women to become the future leaders of the USAF is the top priority.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
Steve,
I understand what you are saying about there being legal standards for appointments - but the facts still remain: There are close to 800 D1 athletes at the AFA. That is a significant number of athletes in a school of 4000, so a major focus of recruitment must be in getting D1 athletes. I wasn't implying that all of those athletes get a free pass to jump ahead of everyone else, just that, especially in the national pool, they have a distinct advantage over candidates without D1 eligibility.
 
And other than the few star athletes that the acadewmy does show consideration for; which we have all acknowledged, what is this distinct advantage you are speaking of?
 
CC: I'm sorry that I'm not making myself clear. Not talking about the few star athletes. If you're a D1 athlete - recruited or not - you have something that someone without D1 ability has. Therefore, you are more desirable to the AFA since they have 28 D1 teams to fill. Am I right?
 
CC: I'm sorry that I'm not making myself clear. Not talking about the few star athletes. If you're a D1 athlete - recruited or not - you have something that someone without D1 ability has. Therefore, you are more desirable to the AFA since they have 28 D1 teams to fill. Am I right?

No. In this case, as you describe, you do NOT have anything more than any other candidate. The ONLY athlete that is looked at "differently" from any other candidate is one that has been "tagged in the system" as "Blue Chip."

If you don't have that, you are just a regular candidate.

And both have to meet entrance requirements.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
CC: I'm sorry that I'm not making myself clear. Not talking about the few star athletes. If you're a D1 athlete - recruited or not - you have something that someone without D1 ability has. Therefore, you are more desirable to the AFA since they have 28 D1 teams to fill. Am I right?

Yes, you have something desirable. "In one area". Just like the person who has lived overseas in multiple countries. Just like the person who was raised by a single parent and worked to support their siblings. Just like the kid who was home schooled.

I think the part you are missing is that while 50 football players may be recruited, only 15-20 will stay on the team. Same with many sports. As Steve (Flieger) stated, the athletes are NOT the academy's priority when it comes to giving out appointments. Believe what you want, but it's simply not true. And I won't argue that point. You can believe that the academy care's more about them than anyone else. Obviously, I'm not going to change your mind.

Now in "theory", the academy would love to have every single cadet with an appointment be a star athlete. "NOT BECAUSE OF THEIR D1 Athletics". But because the academy and the military's prime attribute to success is being a "TEAM". And being a physically fit team at that. And like it or not, athletes are more "Team" oriented than non-athletes. And the "Star" athletes are usually in leadership positions on those teams. The academy however realizes that even D1 capable athletes is just one form of diversity. And in reality, it is impractical to think you could possibly have 1100+ appointees who were are star athletes. There aren't that many star athletes, and the class wouldn't be diversified enough to create the type of leaders the air force is looking for. And that's leaders who have been exposed to such diversity, because the men and women that they will be leading, will be themselves that diverse.

I can't give you exact numbers, but based on my experience, I would say that if there are 50 recruited football players, maybe 5-10 of them are in the category that you speak of. ALL the others need to be desirable to the academy in all the many other facets that they are looking for. Diversity is a very broad brush. Many things are desirable to the academies. And it's not just athletics.
 
I am surprised to see so much passion against DI athletes that get a couple of extra points on their application b/c they would be an IC.

I am a grad and pretty knowledgeable on the subject.

My daughter is a junior in HS. She isn't going to apply to a SA, but she is a D1 recruited athlete and here is what her week entails:

M: School 7-2:30, Homework 3-5, Soccer 5-8, homework 8-10
T: School 7-2:30, Homework 3-5, Soccer 5-8, homework 8-10
W: School 7-2:30, Homework 3-5, Soccer 5-8, homework 8-10
Th: School 7-2:30, Homework 3-5, Soccer 5-8, homework 8-10
Sat: game
Sun: game

By Tuesday she is beat tired and has to really push herself to do that 8-10PM homework. By Thursday her body aches, but pushes thru it to do her sports and continue her studying. On the weekend she might be able to get a little more sleep, but then it starts all over again on Monday. She is constantly pushing her body and has very little time outside of soccer so her time management skills are very good.

If anyone has been to a SA, does this sound familiar? If anyone has been in the military, does this sound familiar? D1 athletes are conditioned from an early age to do well in the military.

I will leave you with this quote that I had to memorize quite a few years ago:

On the fields of friendly strife are sown the seeds that on other days and other fields will bear the fruits of victory.
-General Douglas MacArthur
 
My daughter is a junior in HS. She isn't going to apply to a SA, but she is a D1 recruited athlete and here is what her week entails..
What are the schedules of the non recruited D1 high school varsity athletes? I think the vast majority of SA applicants have played (competed) in HS varsity athletics. Often times in multiple sports. I'm not sure whether I've seen a difference in the high school schedules between those that are "recruited" vs those that are not....at THAT level.
 
I can't give you exact numbers, but based on my experience, I would say that if there are 50 recruited football players, maybe 5-10 of them are in the category that you speak of.
So that's somewhere between 10% and 20% of the football team? Or if there are 800 D1 athletes at USAFA then somewhere between 80 and 160 are "special" recruits that may not have had to meet the usual application standards? This speculation thing is great.
 
I can only speak of our experience in our sports. The difference between the amount of work a typical high school letter winner in a sport and a true D1 level athlete does is HUGE. I would say it is double the time and the work. The difference isn't only in skill level, but in time commitment and intensity to get to that skill level. Additionally the travel commitment is very high for those on teams that travel the region / country for tournaments.

I am sure that is very similar in many other sports. I know it is for basketball and in soccer (the two we have direct experience with).
 
D1 athletes are conditioned from an early age to do well in the military.

Thanks for the encouragement Billy. My DS was a competitive swimmer with similar experiences and challenges as your DD. Swimming at the competitive high school level involves practices 6 days a week pretty much year round. Two days a week they were in the water at 0530 in addition to their regular afternoon practice and the Saturday morning practices were always a favorite as well. One thing DS learned in swimming was to just "suck it up" and do what he was told no matter how he felt. He also learned the importance of teamship and the skill/art of endurance. We are hoping that his experience as a swimmer will provide a good foundation for USAFA even though he does not wish to be a D1 swimmer.
 
I can only speak of our experience in our sports. The difference between the amount of work a typical high school letter winner in a sport and a true D1 level athlete does is HUGE.
Thank you for sharing your experience. My experience/observations....at least at OUR school seem quite different than yours. Good luck to you and your daughter!
 
CC wrote: "Yes, you have something desirable. "In one area". Just like the person who has lived overseas in multiple countries..."


CC: So being (non-recruited) D1 is desirable just as being in another diversity category, and D1 alone or when added to other categories could put you ahead of someone who didn't have those point options. Do you see where I'm coming from? Every point matters when so few appointments are given out.


Fleiger wrote: "No. In this case, as you describe, you do NOT have anything more than any other candidate."

Steve - Being (non-recruited) D1 doesn't count for anything?

Thank you both for clarifying.
 
Okay...

I just don't know what you're trying to learn/seek/prove/disprove or determine.

NOBODY on this board can answer the question that Gotaplay2 is asking to satisfaction and that is because NOBODY on this board works in USAFA/RRS.

Colonel Benyshek and Dr. "Phil" PhD....I won't put his last name as I don't know that its listed publicly, are the people that determine what the selection process will be each year; they work with the USAFA/DF and USAFA/AD...also known as the academic (Dean of Faculty) and the athletic (Athletic Director) departments.

I will only comment, as I have, based upon my training as an ALO, having done this for a LONG time, and the briefings I've received at USAFA from Col Benyshek and her staff as well as from Dr Mueh, the AD.

The only things I can tell Gotaplay2 with certainty is this:

1. NO Div1 IC is admitted to USAFA that does not also meet the legal requirements for admission
2. Some highly recruited Div1 IC's have been admitted to ALL SA's when they were not the #1 on the list of all candidates eligible.
3. Does being a recruited "blue chip" athlete open any doors for you in the admissions cycle? Yes. Does it guarantee you will be admitted? No.

I will give you "my opinion" now. A candidate with a "blue chip" recruitment, that has SAT's of 700+ each, or ACT's of 32+ in all areas, HIGH GPA, etc...etc...is probably going to be higher on the selection list than a candidate that has the same numbers and is NOT a "blue chip" athlete.

How often does that happen? More often that you know I think, the candidates all the SA's receive are amazing young men and women! And,
the coaches are VERY good at recruiting athletes that also are fine candidates in and of themselves. I worked one like that last year; he's now a doolie at USAFA. He was VERY heavily recruited in his sport, by big-name schools from all over the country but he wanted to go to USAFA. And he was eventually appointed...in late April.

And please understand this as well...with the drawdown of the number of appointments, the AD has had their number of "recruits" cut as well. They don't get "all they want ahead of anyone else." They are allocated numbers because they are not the primary reason the academy exists.

The final question: Steve - Being (non-recruited) D1 doesn't count for anything? If you're asking: "Does being a non-recruited IC at USAFA count for anything? Well, once you're at USAFA and are on a team and are an IC...sure, it counts for being on the team and you might end up with a HUGE "AF" on your athletic jacket and have your name permanently recorded in the list of AF letter-winners. But realize you're not a D1 athlete UNTIL you're in a D1 school. The original question was in reference to being a "blue chip" athletic recruit or not. Pretty much 100% of candidates have SOME athletic background (not all, that's true, but most do) but only "blue chip" recruits are so identified in their files.

If that doesn't suit...I'm sorry, I guess I just don't know what you're trying to say/prove/argue.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
So that's somewhere between 10% and 20% of the football team? Or if there are 800 D1 athletes at USAFA then somewhere between 80 and 160 are "special" recruits that may not have had to meet the usual application standards? This speculation thing is great.

No, you can't use that type of math. Why? Because many of the D1 type sports at the academy are very small in participants, and they simply fill the team from the available appointees. Football for instance has a team of 80+ players. That's why they bring in 50+ players in the freshman year. So they can keep 15-20 of them over time.

Now if you want to believe that 5-10 appointee out of 1200 who happen to be high end D1 football athletes is still too many; then you'd have to have that same argument against all forms of diversity. But in order to do that, you'd have to first change the law. Title 10 of the U.S. Code allows each representative and senator to have "X" number of constituents at the academy at any one time. This is a form of diversity too. It allows EQUAL representation to all 50 states and territories. And if the representatives and senators WANTED to exercise their legal responsibilities; that approximately 535 appointments a year that the academy would have absolutely NO SAT SO in whether they get in or not. As long as they meet the minimum requirements, the academy would HAVE TO TAKE THEM if the MOC made them their principal nominee.

Throw in another 200 per year on average for military related slots. That's a total of around 750 appointments that are diversified. That's leaves 300-500 remaining appointments. So, if you want to complain about D1 level athletes, then you have to simply complain about ALL diversity in general. And that's what the conversation should really be about. Not athletes. Why should the #1 principal nominee from the 12th district of california, with a 3.60 gpa and 25 ACT scores, be automatically given an appointment because their representative MADE THEM THEIR PRINCIPAL Nominee? Well, that's the law. "If the MOC chooses to make them the principal".

Bottom line is that some here believe that the 1100-1200 appointments should be to the 1100-1200 HIGHEST SCORED APPLICATIONS. And it doesn't matter if all 1100-1200 happen to be White guys from Texas, that's who should get it. Unfortunately, the military enlisted members, who all these new officers will be LEADING, are not all White guys from Texas. They are as diverse as you can imagine. So should the academies be. And if "some" of these diverse appointments can also go to a small number of high end athletes who also meet all the academy requirements, and successfully pass the same academic requirements that the other non-IC athletes are required to do; then more power to them. Especially if it helps the academy overall in many areas.

I still feel that some in this conversation believe that there's this large number of individuals who are athletes, getting special treatment. As Flieger suggested, I recommend not posting any more until you've contacted Dr. Mueh, the current Air Force Academy Athletic Director, and ask him for the specific number of IC athletes that came into the class of 2015 with "Special Consideration/nominations/etc..." and wasn't in the NORMAL pool of competition with other applicants in their district, state, or national pool. Then you'll have the answers you're looking for. But until you have the exact numbers, your conspiracy theories hold no more weight than anyone else telling you that's it's not that significant.
 
Side Note: It's THIS TOPIC, spoken every year, that made me so happy that my son, with a presidential nomination, received an early appointment at the end of October (Delivered the first part of November); PRIOR to being recruited as an athlete. This way, when this topic comes up, I can concentrate on his academics and the rest of his application that got him his appointment. As well as accepted to a number of other universities in his application process. As Flieger points out: There's a lot of IC's who happen to also have a pretty kick butt application. Don't stereotype athletes as being "Dumb Jocks". I've met a lot of the IC's who came in with the 3.9-4.0gpa's; top 10 in their class; AP's; leadership, etc... Also many IC's at the academy who have gone on to be accepted to grad school, med school, etc...

But I will say YES, if you are in the Top-10 of your class; took IB/AP classes; went to boy's state; 200 hrs of volunteer time; etc... And you happen to ALSO BE an "All State Athlete; Gatorade player of the year; in all your state newspaper every week excelling in your sports; etc..."; and the academy finds out about this through ALO's, School coaches, internet, etc... Then yes, you most definitely have a better chance than the individual who has everything you have but NOT the level of athletic success. What's wrong with that? Nothing. Again; it goes back to some people believing that there are athletes with a 2.?gpa or 400/400/400 SAT who are receiving appointments. Or, that there are some closer to the border of cutoffs where they get the nod over the non-athlete who did better academically.
 
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Wow! Change the law concerning nominations? What a left field response that was to a question concerning D1 athletes. But perhaps easier than validating your opinions with sources or facts.

I recommend not posting any more until you've contacted Dr. Mueh, the current Air Force Academy Athletic Director, and ask him for the specific number of IC athletes that came into the class of 2015 with "Special Consideration/nominations/etc..." and wasn't in the NORMAL pool of competition with other applicants in their district, state, or national pool. Then you'll have the answers you're looking for. But until you have the exact numbers, your conspiracy theories hold no more weight than anyone else telling you that's it's not that significant.
Perhaps you could share Dr Mueh's response to you when you wrote/asked him? Clearly you have continued to post about how few/many D1 athletes have come into USAFA with "Special Consideration/nominations/etc...". Certainly you wouldn't recommend others to follow advice that you personally haven't taken....would you?

BTW - which poster was suggesting a "conspiracy" theory?
 
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