Very fascinating as a parent of a c4c and having lived through this process, the conversation that has taken place on this thread. Often times I think we as parents and applicants focus so much on the getting in that we lose sight of the why are you attending and staying there. Whether you are a recruited athlete or not you still are graduating as an officer in the Air Force. Your score going into your last year will determine what you do as an officer and the area you go into. Therefore, how you perform at the academy is far more important then just getting in. Watching some of the c4c athletes they have been held to the same high standards during basic as all others. They follow the same rules take the same classes and are expected to perform their military duties as well as be an athlete. They are written up just as others are for disobeying an officer. Many may arrive because they are recruited but again they must want to serve to stay. Again some thoughts and observations as we all embark on this journey no matter what stage of the journey you are on.
Best way to get into USAFA
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As a parent how were you able to watch c4c athletes during basic and determine what standards they were held to?
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Well, I can say as a senior AF officer, that I have been an observer during BCT several times, both first and second BCT, and have observed recruited athletes and "regular" basics.
I didn't see too much of anything different EXCEPT at the Assault Course in Jack's Valley. When I've been there, the cadre has had a large number of football team members on it...and they'd look for the recruited football basics...and they were singled out for "a bit more attention" by those cadre members. It never went "over the line" but anytime cadre focus upon YOU, it's not fun.
I have asked classmates that have been faculty members this very question because I'm one of those people that really puts the value of the Div 1 teams to the rear of the mission of developing the finest officers for the USAF. My questions were simple: have you ever been "pressured" to pass an athlete in your class because they were "on the team" and "important?"
Each and every one of them said they had NOT. They did say that they'd spent a lot of time working with some athlete or more during their tenure, mostly because they were just so loaded with classes, military duties, and sports practice, etc. And I can relate to that as I was an athlete at USAFA for my first two years. Academics removed me from my sport.
I understand the reason that recruiting athletes occurs and the value that the "paying" sports bring to USAFA, but I've not liked the process much, personally. I don't care if I ever see a graduate of the USAFA in any professional sports league. I DO want to see them leading our fine airmen around the world, performing their duties honorably, and making us all proud!
Let's not take this thread down the path of "banging on each other" because of an opinion, facts that can't be posted (ALO's and some others are privy to statistics, information, etc., that sometimes they are NOT allowed to share as its For Official Use Only) or other things not really germane to the original question: "What's the best way to get into USAFA?"
Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
As a senior AF officer I can certainly understand how you would have had occasion to observe BCT first hand and appreciate your opinion. I'm still confused as to how the parent in the post I was responding to was able to make this observation.
Agreed. Lets also agree to clearly define what are opinions and what are secret facts that can't be posted. I have yet to see anyone claim to know any of the actual stats of recruited athletes or URMs. Hopefully not knowing and not being able to disclose won't be confused.
I really don't want to keep this thread going... As parents of a recruited cadet, that was given "Blue Chip" status, I will provide you with facts as they pertain to our experience-near 4.0 gpa with AP and Honors classes-right at 2100 combined SAT-completed every application that every other cadet must complete-interviewed with MOC and received nomination-several leadership activities while in HS-Obviously, I can't speak for anyone else, but those are the facts in regard to our journey
Christcorp
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And that is similar to my son and MOST of the other recruits. They went through the same process as every other applicant. Including the nomination process. Are there a "Couple" that was able to secure an "internal" nomination? Yes. But even they had to meet the minimum requirements. But for the majority of the IC athletes recruited blue-chip, (Which just means they didn't have to try-out for the team. Doesn't mean they are guaranteed to STAY on the team. That's a season by season decision by the coaches); these applicants for the most part had kick butt applications and went through the same process as everyone else. And there are plenty of parents of IC's and IC cadets themselves that you can verify and validate this with.
melindayching
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My daughter is aspiring to the class of 2016 and to be an IC, and at this point in the process it is still uncertain what her future holds. But if I may offer a few words about her experience to date....In her first meeting with the USAFA coach for her sport, the talk was all about her grades, her SAT scores, her leadership activities. He made it clear that while he wanted her on the team, she needed to have stellar credentials in all other respects. As she has worked with her admissions counselor and her ALO, it has been clear that her athletic success is less important than the skills she has gained and the personal qualities she has refined because of her athletics -- her ability to manage her time, to be committed to her sport, to be a teammate and team leader, and to give more than 100% and to maximize her potential in all facets of her life, including academics and community service. In my opinion, USAFA is the better for the athletes it recruits; they have already begun cultivating the very qualities that make Air Force officers.
Christcorp
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No, but what significance would it matter?
You may know what your son's qualifications are, but you have no way of knowing whether MOST other IC athletes have equally (or close) stats. Or for that matter how "few" or how many are a "couple" of exceptions. Certainly the few parents posting their IC athlete children's stats on this forum are not necessarily representative of the rest of IC athletes. If your child was recruited with below average stats would you post on this thread?
Additionally, I think it is very likely that certain sports teams (money sports such as football) may contain more of the academic "exceptions" than others.
Good luck to your daughter with her application to USAFA. Which IC sport is she aspiring to play at USAFA?
Re: How many (team) athletes attend the AFA
I asked this question because (given the small class sizes) it would be good for someone who wasn't a (team) athlete to have an idea of how many spots were reserved for team athletes. I understand that there are a myriad of reasons for being accepted, (all different backgrounds), but these numbers would indicate how many spots were up for grabs by everyone else.
I asked this question because (given the small class sizes) it would be good for someone who wasn't a (team) athlete to have an idea of how many spots were reserved for team athletes. I understand that there are a myriad of reasons for being accepted, (all different backgrounds), but these numbers would indicate how many spots were up for grabs by everyone else.
Re: How many (team) athletes attend the AFA
Ok - just figured out that there are close to 800 athletes (incl Cheerleading & Boxing) at AFA. So, with 20% of the school on rosters, I guess the original poster was correct in stating that being an athlete who can play Div. 1 sports (recruited or not) is definitely the best way to get in to the AFA.
Ok - just figured out that there are close to 800 athletes (incl Cheerleading & Boxing) at AFA. So, with 20% of the school on rosters, I guess the original poster was correct in stating that being an athlete who can play Div. 1 sports (recruited or not) is definitely the best way to get in to the AFA.
Christcorp
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Except, the majority of those athletes received nominations and appointments the same that everyone else does. It's a small percentage of this athletes that had any direct dealings in the appointment process by the coach of their sport.
Right - you've made that clear. They had to get the nomination and fill out the paperwork like everyone else. But everyone else should know what the numbers are, since the Academy needs to fill those D1 rosters. Athletes have priority - right?
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Christcorp
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Not 800 of them. That's my point. Obviously, I didn't make it clear.
What percentage?
CC: By 'priority' I meant that those rosters need to be filled. Since the AFA has 28 D1 teams, it must be a priority to fill those teams. It's more important to sign a team athlete than another applicant who may have similar (or more) leadership/sports experience. That seems obvious if they want to stay D1.
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Folks...we're really beating this dead horse to death again...and again.
While the questions are good and legitimate, the "definitive" answers...those which are desired, are NOT going to be found here.
ChristCorp, has done a great job of explaining the process; and he has first-hand knowledge with his "firstie" son! And while every recruited IC experience is different, there's enough similarities to form an impression of the "general" process.
What can't be described, quantified, or deduced is: how many for each sport, what the criteria is used to determine who will be "blue chip" and so forth. I've personally worked with dozens of recruited athletes for USAFA. They are tagged "blue chip" initially. BUT...after ALO interviews, and our "background investigation" (the meat of an ALO's job) MANY of those athletes LOST their "blue chip" status.
We didn't say they weren't IC material, but something in our evaluation told the teams: 'not the best USAFA choice' for whatever reason. And some IC's have their "blue chip" status solidified by the ALO report.
But if you're 100% in need to know the precise numbers for IC's at USAFA, how many were Blue Chip, etc...etc...there is ONE person that can answer that perfectly (actually there are several but I won't list all their names) to your content: Dr. Hans Meuh, retired Brigadier General, the current Athletic Director. I met with him in June here in Arizona and we discussed IC's and his comments were: "Your ALO's are hugely important in assuring our recruited athletes meet all the requirements for entry into the cadet wing; our coaches are concerned with it too, but their work is limited by the NCAA...we rely on you for a LOT of the detailed work."
Since he was my chemistry instructor when I was a cadet, I took him at his word (I actually passed his class!)
Oh, I forgot to add this: those IC's that are "not quite there academically", either in GPA or SAT/ACT? They are the ones you see at the Prep School.
Please understand, the numbers everyone is posting here: speculation, some deduction, but mostly speculation. And Gotaplay2...I will pose your question to the folks "on the hill" tomorrow but I know their answer: athletes do NOT take priority for appointment as a general rule. While Division 1 is a factor at USAFA, it's not the priority. I would say the area of possible exception, now and then, is Football, Basketball, and Hockey. But not the way your comments infer.
Steve
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USAFA '83
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Great post! For all of us with an IC at the academy you hit all the important points!