Most important physical quality for plebe summer

Old Navy BGO said:
+1 OldRetSWO -- this is not a thing anymore. It used to be, I had a Company officer who more or less told us to turn up the heat on Plebe who wasn't cutting it. However, the modern philosophy is that anyone who is admitted has the aptitude and ability to succeed, graduate and be a Naval/Marine Corps officer and that self appointed quality control officers within the upperclass shouldn't be making the decision whether someone should get run out.

That said, don't take this to mean that the Detailers aren't still allowed to create a stressful environment as part of the Plebe Summer training environment. They can, and they will, its just that stress is probably applied more rationally at times.
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... + 2 false statements. Do you have a live witness???
 
Your "live witness" is wrong, as witnesses can often be. People DOR, but that is not the goal of the detailers, or the program as a whole.

I have "live witness" testimony that concerns a detailer who went over the line and suffered pretty serious "correction" as a result. That testimony supports what both @OldRetSWO and @Old Navy BGO stated.

The goal is to train them up, not run them out.
 
DTT!FSA! said:
Your "live witness" is wrong, as witnesses bscan often be. People DOR, but that is not the goal of the detailers, or the program as a whole.

I have "live witness" testimony that concerns a detailer who went over the line and suffered pretty serious "correction" as a result. That testimony supports what both @OldRetSWO and @Old Navy BGO stated.

The goal is to train them up, not run them out.
Click to expand...
... so a live witness to me is a person who resides in Bancroft that I talk to daily. So my witness is 100% valid. Your assumptions or comments are so inaccurate and plain wrong.
 
severn said:
... so the following two FALSE statements were made by Oldretswo:
** Upperclassmen running out a Plebe really went away.
** Any detailer that even starts down that path will get corrected.
Where did you get this outdated information... from the 1980s, 1990s? I got my information in 2023, six months ago from a live witness, a human.

... so the favorite technique was to get the Plebe in a front leaning rest position (pushup). The three detailers, kneeling on one knee, will then corral the Plebe. The "bait" is the question, "Are you Special?"
If the answer is "Yes" then DOR follows. And Yes, Mids who think they are special DORs eventually.
Click to expand...
You're basing your remarks on your 12 month or so second hand association with USNA?
You really don't have any first hand knowledge of the common practices at USNA over the past 4 or 5 decades.
Back when USNA had 3 striper sets per year, my company paired the four lowest ranked plebes with the toughest flamer Firstie
along with two toughest Second Classmen for the Second set. The Squad Leader announced loudly that he was starting with
four plebes and intended to finish with zero plebes. Come-arounds with that Firstie were before Morning Formation for 20 or so minutes and before Noon Meal for 15 mins with 30 mins with the Second Class before mandatory dinner formation. Absolute discipline was required
in King Hall and plebes spent most of the meals answering questions or taking care of upperclassmen's needs until the upperclass left at
which point the plebes could slam their food down and run back up for class or whatever. Close inspections were before every meal and
rooms were inspected multiple times per week. Absolutely NO slack and this was of course, coupled with academics and everything else.
The Firstie and Second Class though nothing of assigning special reports or other time consuming things as well which had to be fit in
with everything else. There is more that I could add but the memories are still too difficult.
Two of the four plebes assigned did not make it through the set.

That is an example of upperclass trying to make a plebe DOR.

For more examples, try reading "A Sense of Honor" by James Webb
 
DD was a plebe summer detailer and then held a "wedge" billet the following plebe summer. According to her, the goal is to create stressful situations to bring out the plebe's best, not to run them out.
 
OldRetSWO said:
You're basing your remarks on your 12 month or so second hand association with USNA?
You really don't have any first hand knowledge of the common practices at USNA over the past 4 or 5 decades.
Back when USNA had 3 striper sets per year, my company paired the four lowest ranked plebes with the toughest flamer Firstie
along with two toughest Second Classmen for the Second set. The Squad Leader announced loudly that he was starting with
four plebes and intended to finish with zero plebes. Come-arounds with that Firstie were before Morning Formation for 20 or so minutes and before Noon Meal for 15 mins with 30 mins with the Second Class before mandatory dinner formation. Absolute discipline was required
in King Hall and plebes spent most of the meals answering questions or taking care of upperclassmen's needs until the upperclass left at
which point the plebes could slam their food down and run back up for class or whatever. Close inspections were before every meal and
rooms were inspected multiple times per week. Absolutely NO slack and this was of course, coupled with academics and everything else.
The Firstie and Second Class though nothing of assigning special reports or other time consuming things as well which had to be fit in
with everything else. There is more that I could add but the memories are still too difficult.
Two of the four plebes assigned did not make it through the set.

That is an example of upperclass trying to make a plebe DOR.

For more examples, try reading "A Sense of Honor" by James Webb
Click to expand...
... ok... I'm talking about now, January 2023. If you read my initial comment, it's about helping plebes... now; not you old timers' back in the day.
 
MidCakePa said:
DD was a plebe summer detailer and then held a "wedge" billet the following plebe summer. According to her, the goal is to create stressful situations to bring out the plebe's best, not to run them out.
Click to expand...
... ok then... the corral technique
with the "bait" question,
are you special?

If the Plebe confirms Yes, DOR follows.
 
DTT!FSA! said:
Your "live witness" is wrong, as witnesses can often be. People DOR, but that is not the goal of the detailers, or the program as a whole.

I have "live witness" testimony that concerns a detailer who went over the line and suffered pretty serious "correction" as a result. That testimony supports what both @OldRetSWO and @Old Navy BGO stated.

The goal is to train them up, not run them out.
Click to expand...
... so my live witness is in Bancroft today. Your witness is the forum... give me a break.
 
My Plebe summer was '92. There were definitely some shenanigans going on while I was there. But, it was worse during my boot in the Army in '89/90.

My personal experience was not that they were directly trying to weed people out. But, it was a bit of the Wild West with the detailers.
 
... since we're all reminiscing now...
Recon school in Camp McCall, there was a deranged instructor who practiced assassination techniques with a BB gun directed at sleeping candidates. Around 1500, you'll find 5-7 tiny red welts in your back. One day, Mr. Deranged and his assistant Mr. Nuts decided to try another technique: pickup sleeping candidates and throw them out the window. If you are halfway asleep, you'll witness a flying human.
 
A plebe answering yes to "are you special" is definitely not enough to start the DOR process. It will bring them more attention which is a bad thing, but you only go through the DOR process if you select it or you clearly aren't making the standard. And even then you get put into Tango company with new detailers and they will make sure that DORing is actually the best choice for you or that your previous detailers were off the rails.
 
severn said:
... so the following two FALSE statements were made by Oldretswo:
** Upperclassmen running out a Plebe really went away.
** Any detailer that even starts down that path will get corrected.
Where did you get this outdated information... from the 1980s, 1990s? I got my information in 2023, six months ago from a live witness, a human.

... so the favorite technique was to get the Plebe in a front leaning rest position (pushup). The three detailers, kneeling on one knee, will then corral the Plebe. The "bait" is the question, "Are you Special?"
If the answer is "Yes" then DOR follows. And Yes, Mids who think they are special DORs eventually.
Click to expand...
I think there's just a mismatch in what we consider "running out" a Plebe here.

This is normal detailer shenanigans, usually as a result of some failure or a generally continuous pattern of failure. I wouldn't call that "running out" a Plebe. Everyone gets hotboxed in a backshaft for doing something stupid or generally being stupid at some point.

Tango Company does DORs and it's a whole process that can take weeks. It takes more than just some detailers being mean to result in a DOR.
 
urbansailor said:
A plebe answering yes to "are you special" is definitely not enough to start the DOR process. It will bring them more attention which is a bad thing, but you only go through the DOR process if you select it or you clearly aren't making the standard. And even then you get put into Tango company with new detailers and they will make sure that DORing is actually the best choice for you or that your previous detailers were off the rails.
Click to expand...
... ok, the reason I'm tracking this is because my DS's friend from HS answered "Yes" and then DORed.
 
nuensis said:
I think there's just a mismatch in what we consider "running out" a Plebe here.

This is normal detailer shenanigans, usually as a result of some failure or a generally continuous pattern of failure. I wouldn't call that "running out" a Plebe. Everyone gets hotboxed in a backshaft for doing something stupid or generally being stupid at some point.

Tango Company does DORs and it's a whole process that can take weeks. It takes more than just some detailers being mean to result in a DOR.
Click to expand...
... ok I think my term "corral" is the same as "hotbox."
 
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