New Student Indoctrination (Summer 2019)

[user8888]

I cannot say this with 100% certainty, but I cannot imagine them doing an official PRT at NSI. They have 400+ candidates who will be attending schools all across the country. They will not want to be reporting scores on all these candidates. I do know for sure that the candidates will need to pass a PRT in order to activate their scholarship. No funds will be disbursed on their behalf until that is passed.

Hello I just graduated from NSI cycle one and they did administer a PRT test twice. One was for inventory, the second one was to activate your scholarship. The candidates were split up into three different companies and they administered the PRT to each company. Everything ran smoothly, the scores were reported on both tests and they will be sent to the candidates units.

Was the second test to activate scholarship at the end of NSI?

 

[busdriver]

Congrats. Thanks for the updated info.
Generally speaking, did most pass the test? Wondering what the pass rate was.
Also, do you have an estimate on how many volunteered to leave early? I’m on a parent FB group and it’s some crazy numbers they’re quoting which makes me think it’s not accurate.

 

[Brendo147]

Congrats. Thanks for the updated info.
Generally speaking, did most pass the test? Wondering what the pass rate was.
Also, do you have an estimate on how many volunteered to leave early? I’m on a parent FB group and it’s some crazy numbers they’re quoting which makes me think it’s not accurate.

I was a candidate at this NSI, and most out of the 396 who graduated did pass. Something like 90% seems like a good number.
And 34 out of the 430 who started the program ended up DORing. So again it seems like around 10% dropped.

 

[sophloaf0]

Do the people who did not pass the fitness test lose their scholarship or do they get another chance to pass it when they report to their unit?

 

[kinnem]

Do the people who did not pass the fitness test lose their scholarship or do they get another chance to pass it when they report to their unit?

They will get additional chances to to retake at their unit. They do not "lose" the scholarship, but no money will be disbursed. If they don't pass by late first semester then they will be on the hook for that semester's tuition and will still be missing their stipend.

 

[sophloaf0]

They will get additional chances to to retake at their unit. They do not "lose" the scholarship, but no money will be disbursed. If they don't pass by late first semester then they will be on the hook for that semester's tuition and will still be missing their stipend.

Thanks for the clarification! Logistics like this have not been made super clear to me so I appreciate it

 

[Iviado]

I cannot say this with 100% certainty, but I cannot imagine them doing an official PRT at NSI. They have 400+ candidates who will be attending schools all across the country. They will not want to be reporting scores on all these candidates. I do know for sure that the candidates will need to pass a PRT in order to activate their scholarship. No funds will be disbursed on their behalf until that is passed.

Hello I just graduated from NSI cycle one and they did administer a PRT test twice. One was for inventory, the second one was to activate your scholarship. The candidates were split up into three different companies and they administered the PRT to each company. Everything ran smoothly, the scores were reported on both tests and they will be sent to the candidates units.

Was the second test to activate scholarship at the end of NSI?

Yes they administered it on the last Saturday of my cycle. The first one was the second Saturday of my cycle.

 

[Iviado]

Congrats. Thanks for the updated info.
Generally speaking, did most pass the test? Wondering what the pass rate was.
Also, do you have an estimate on how many volunteered to leave early? I’m on a parent FB group and it’s some crazy numbers they’re quoting which makes me think it’s not accurate.

We were told that we started with 450 candidates and ended with 390. Most of my company passed the PRT though I’m not sure what our pass rate was. There was a lot of improvement between the first PRT and the second PRT.

 

[Elmo_mom]

My son just completed the first round of NSI. He was aware that several people left for various reasons but didn't know specifics. One of the things he was told was that the Navy is implementing NSI to weed people out. The Navy makes a huge investment in paying scholarships, and it's no strings the first year. So rather than pay the tuition and have DORs at the end of freshman year, he was under the impression the Navy is trying to mitigate that. As a taxpayer, I think it makes sense. ROTC and military service is not for everyone. The CAPT at my son's unit told him that the attrition from beginning of freshman year to graduation is about 40%. People leave for various reasons - health, behavioral, grades etc. There is no shame in leaving the program at NSI - and there's nothing wrong with the Navy making the program rigorous.

 

[kinnem]

My son just completed the first round of NSI. He was aware that several people left for various reasons but didn't know specifics. One of the things he was told was that the Navy is implementing NSI to weed people out. The Navy makes a huge investment in paying scholarships, and it's no strings the first year. So rather than pay the tuition and have DORs at the end of freshman year, he was under the impression the Navy is trying to mitigate that. As a taxpayer, I think it makes sense. ROTC and military service is not for everyone. The CAPT at my son's unit told him that the attrition from beginning of freshman year to graduation is about 40%. People leave for various reasons - health, behavioral, grades etc. There is no shame in leaving the program at NSI - and there's nothing wrong with the Navy making the program rigorous.

Whatever the reason, this has been going on in NROTC units for years and NSI didn't need to be implemented to achieve that. In 2011 DS's unit lost 33% during their one week freshman orientation. They lost another 33% prior to commissioning. All kinds of reasons for people to drop or be disenrolled. This is not easy.

 

[co2020fb]

My son just completed the first round of NSI. He was aware that several people left for various reasons but didn't know specifics. One of the things he was told was that the Navy is implementing NSI to weed people out. The Navy makes a huge investment in paying scholarships, and it's no strings the first year. So rather than pay the tuition and have DORs at the end of freshman year, he was under the impression the Navy is trying to mitigate that. As a taxpayer, I think it makes sense. ROTC and military service is not for everyone. The CAPT at my son's unit told him that the attrition from beginning of freshman year to graduation is about 40%. People leave for various reasons - health, behavioral, grades etc. There is no shame in leaving the program at NSI - and there's nothing wrong with the Navy making the program rigorous.

Whatever the reason, this has been going on in NROTC units for years and NSI didn't need to be implemented to achieve that. In 2011 DS's unit lost 33% during their one week freshman orientation. They lost another 33% prior to commissioning. All kinds of reasons for people to drop or be disenrolled. This is not easy.

Honestly I'm not a huge fan of NSI either. I feel like they should have at least tried to pair the Candidates by school. The NSO bonding experience is lost.

 

[MinnMom]

My son just completed the first round of NSI. He was aware that several people left for various reasons but didn't know specifics. One of the things he was told was that the Navy is implementing NSI to weed people out. The Navy makes a huge investment in paying scholarships, and it's no strings the first year. So rather than pay the tuition and have DORs at the end of freshman year, he was under the impression the Navy is trying to mitigate that. As a taxpayer, I think it makes sense. ROTC and military service is not for everyone. The CAPT at my son's unit told him that the attrition from beginning of freshman year to graduation is about 40%. People leave for various reasons - health, behavioral, grades etc. There is no shame in leaving the program at NSI - and there's nothing wrong with the Navy making the program rigorous.

Whatever the reason, this has been going on in NROTC units for years and NSI didn't need to be implemented to achieve that. In 2011 DS's unit lost 33% during their one week freshman orientation. They lost another 33% prior to commissioning. All kinds of reasons for people to drop or be disenrolled. This is not easy.

Honestly I'm not a huge fan of NSI either. I feel like they should have at least tried to pair the Candidates by school. The NSO bonding experience is lost.

Provide that feedback to your unit. They're looking for take-aways.

 

[MinnMom]

Yes, everything in that post was correct. I would recommend bringing ibuprofen for soreness and/or icy hot again for soreness. I’d also inform your son that his hair will be shaved off as well.

Too late now with NSI 2 starting today - but I'd all but guarantee anything brought for pain or soreness will be trashed. It was with Session 1.

 

[Tiger T]

DS just arrived home from NSI. We think he is still decompressing a bit. One interesting thing he said last night was one of the midshipmen instructors stated that these candidates were lucky to have this opportunity, and that he wished he had had it as well. It does seem to me that he did bond with those in his platoon. Probably the most surprising change I’ve seen is he is certainly swearing like a sailor! He lost well over 10 lbs. His platoon were the last to eat and they were often out of food options. No question this experience has changed him, for the better despite how challenging and stressful it was.

 

[ProudDad17]

DS just arrived home from NSI. We think he is still decompressing a bit. One interesting thing he said last night was one of the midshipmen instructors stated that these candidates were lucky to have this opportunity, and that he wished he had had it as well. It does seem to me that he did bond with those in his platoon. Probably the most surprising change I’ve seen is he is certainly swearing like a sailor! He lost well over 10 lbs. His platoon were the last to eat and they were often out of food options. No question this experience has changed him, for the better despite how challenging and stressful it was.

Or perhaps because of how challenging and stressful it was? Overcoming adversity can be a huge confidence and character builder.

 

[KP1990]

I dont mind the idea of NSI. I like that all of the midshipmen will start their 4/C year with the same basic training and skills. I think my issue with it is the implementation. These types of programs, like the plebe summers run at the service academies, are traditionally run by the upperclass students with some oversight by officers and NCOs. The upperclass instructors have all been through the program as plebes and know what to expect. I don't think that's the case here. I would guess that most of the current training cadre have never been through anything close to this. It also sounds like some midshipmen instructors got a little carried away and had to be reprimanded. NSI should be a great place for these young future officers to start to work on their leadership skills. However, they should also be sent to their own "train the trainer" program. There's more to working with the plebes than screaming like a lunatic. Some people dont have the temperament to train at that level. I also read from posts on the parents FB page that the kids were not allowed to interact with each other for 2 weeks. No personal conversations even during down time. That just doesn't make sense to me. When I went through indoc over 30 years ago, we were told that we needed to rely on each other and to pick your squadmate up if they stumbled or were struggling. Isolating these kids is not the way to team build.

I understand that the Navy has money and time invested in the ROTC program and wants to weed kids out who are not committed. The USNA has a plebe class of approximately 1300 candidates. Last year, the total attrition was 10 students by the end of plebe summer. Less than 1% of the class lost. If the numbers for NSI Session 1 are correct, they started with 450 students and graduated 396. That's 12% attrition. I don't think thats a outrageous number, but I also don't think all 54 of those kids were destined to drop out of the NROTC program before the beginning of sophomore year. Putting up with BS and yelling for 3 weeks is not a great indicator of who will be standing at the end. I recall during my own indoc when the instructors cranked up the temperature in the squad area and went beast mode until kids started passing out. It wasnt fun and didnt make me a better officer when I graduated.

My DS is at session 2 now. I told him to keeps his ears and eyes open, and mouth shut unless spoken to. This is a time where being in the middle of the pack is ok. You don't want to make yourself a magnet for the attention of the instructors. Hopefully the NSI staff will have learned some lessons from session 1 and all the kids get through with nothing more than some bumps and bruises. And think of all the great stories they will have when someone asks what they did over the summer? "Oh, I learned how to shoot a 9mm pistol, fight fires, tie up a ship and I got tear gassed. You know, the usual."

 

[KP1990]

Let me add though that the stress created through this type of environment was definitely a positive. I realized that I had to learn how to work under pressure and that in the middle of the ocean, there is no fire department to fight your fires and there is no cavalry to come over the hill to save you. It's often up to you to handle it and the enlisted men and women under your command will look to you for guidance. So that being said, there are things about the program I love but I think it will need some tweaking and fine tuning as it moves forward.

Good luck NROTC Class of 2023. Semper Fortis.

 

[Torero_dad]

Lots of good advice and observations here.

1.) I was surprised at the parental inputs on "no personal conversations", has this been confirmed by any candidate MDNs? Agree it seems shortsighted and counters the larger purpose. But, there are several points where parental inputs seem unreliable so would like to hear from a participant directly.

2.) Agree the attrition can be a feature, not a bug. But DI's are highly trained but there is a real learning curve (see Ricks, Making of the Corps), 1c mids not so much.

3.) Gave same middle of the pack advice. He did not need, keeps his own counsel.

4.) This is Type II fun... not much fun to do, lots of fun to talk about. (The fun to do/fun to talk about graphing.)

 

[Herman_Snerd]

@KP1990 Great post. Just to clarify on attrition for all who may read, 21/22 days of NSI is of course shorter than Plebe summer. Reportedly there were a number of candidates at NSI-1 who experienced a mechanical injury / flu/ illness/ dehydration/ or migraines and went to the hospital to be checked out- some returned to the program and others ultimately were sent home. At Plebe summer they might have been restricted for 48 hours for a sprain to calm down and then continue - no luxury of time for that at NSI. For these students sent home for illness/ injury - for most, their path/ dream continues with NROTC- they just lost the benefit of that training, did not yet qualify on PT, did not graduate with their NSI class.

Additionally, there were a handful of students who unfortunately had disqualifying medical issues surface that had not been previously diagnosed and they will not continue with the NROTC program. For these young adults. It was their choice to serve, not their choice to drop. I am most empathetic for these young people and hope they find a path to overcome this setback, address issues where possible, and serve in their own way.

And there were students who came in thinking they wanted this, and concluded that they did not. Some DOR'd, some made it to graduation but are very publicly doubting they will continue. One young person stated "I graduated NSI but no thanks/ not gonna move forward" and are calling recruiters/ schools to discuss alt. options. I think the number who did this is more like something like 5%- but that's just a soft guess based on the number of students with the other reasons for leaving.

For those of us with sports backgrounds (for me many moons/ many pounds ago) there often were gung-ho people who showed up at the start of a sport season who IMO sometimes looked the part - often maybe in elite shape shape, were all enthusiastic and often loud - but after getting pinned/ tackled/ bopped in the head a few times, or after 3 hours of practice in the heat, or running a few miles on the pitch/ field, a lot of those folks did not have the resolve and quit. I think it's in-part the same here. The hypothetical and actual sometimes are too far apart on commitment, interest to really do this. What these young people are going through is a great challenge.

Again nice post and hopefully folks may find these details useful.

- "If the numbers for NSI Session 1 are correct, they started with 450 students and graduated 396. That's 12% attrition."

 

[kinnem]

I would guess that most of the current training cadre have never been through anything close to this.

Uhhh... they went through the same thing with their own units when they went through freshman orientation. The length and academic topics are different but it's essentially the same (at least for DS's unit).

I also read from posts on the parents FB page that the kids were not allowed to interact with each other for 2 weeks. No personal conversations even during down time. That just doesn't make sense to me.

Again, normal operating procedure for a freshman orientation except the length of time. There is a method to their madness. I know one result, and I'm sure it's not the only reason they do this, is that when they can finally interact they bond like crazy.

Let me add though that the stress created through this type of environment was definitely a positive.

Have to agree with that.