Separation question

usmamomma2worried said:
My NC worked out and ran before r-day. Running has never been their strong suite but they worked hard at it. Based on their letters the first week was ok. But they are tired (expected) and hungry (also expected). They have suddenly started to puke during runs and falling out. Often.
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How do you know this? From her phone call?
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My thoughts are with OP. I don't consider concern for the well being of a child who happens to be a cadet to be helicopter parenting. I hope your cadet finds the solution they need to be successful as they obviously are qualified to be at USMA. We are all parents first.

***The statements above are an opinion. Take it or leave it but it's all mine! :) ***
 
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usmamomma2worried said:
I am not normally a helicopter mom. An upper classman commented to us cripticly that they were concerned about them and that this was serious. Normally I just pray during beast and let the other moms worry and hover. I just know it would kill them to be separated for this.
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You talked with an upperclassman? Helicopter parents rarely recognize themselves as such. And... what could it possibly hurt to say whether the cadet is a boy or girl? Its no disgrace to get sick. Males or females that continually drop out during difficult physical exercises, will eventually lose respect if it is habitual.
 
Dang Maplerock... give this lady a break. Does it really matter if male or female? I am no genius, but since she said this isn't her first academy rodeo she probably has another child there that is older. Wouldn't it make sense that possibly one of the older siblings friends who is cadre could have called?

Regardless, momma2, your child has to work it out for themselves. They can power thru anything if they put their minds to it.
 
My son has thrown up "Hurled" for years. When the football Coach would Say "Nobody leaves the Field till Somebody pukes" They would all his friends would look at him and "OK ..... its up to you"

He didn't find a remedy till USNA when he started personal PT with the distance runners. As a layman what was explained to me.

When you exercise hard your body is deprived of oxygen. I I guess it is the Lactic acid build up, but anyway your stomach starts to produce more acid so you get sick and hurl. He solved it very simply by taking a few Tums before a heavy workout. I am not a big fan of Medicines but this seems innocuous enough for those occasional heavy workouts you know are coming. Don't know if he would be allowed to have them for Plebe Summer, depends on his units rules.
 
billyb said:
Dang Maplerock... give this lady a break. Does it really matter if male or female? I am no genius, but since she said this isn't her first academy rodeo she probably has another child there that is older. Wouldn't it make sense that possibly one of the older siblings friends who is cadre could have called?

Regardless, momma2, your child has to work it out for themselves. They can power thru anything if they put their minds to it.
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We have a cadet and know several cadets there. The quote was " they are doing well in most things.......they are puking and falling out. I am worried. I would like to talk to them to let them know this is serious".
So my question isn't what can I do for my cadet. The question was and still is is puking and falling out during morning pt a separation issue.
It is my understanding everything else is going ok. It is just the am pt runs.
I know I can't do anything nor would I want to. It is just a question
 
I doubt it's a separation issue of they are fine in everything else. Bottom line is it will come down to the PT test. That is usually the measure and hard evidence a SA uses for separation. If you have a DS/DD grad or are in contact with other Cadets I am sure they can say when the test is. Guessing end of summer.
 
usmamomma2worried said:
The question was and still is is puking and falling out during morning pt a separation issue.
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Unless its on the Supes shoes, other wise No.

Now, if the NC cannot finish the PT/run then they become unconditioned/not prepared for their AFPT. When they take the AFPT and do not pass the NC "may" get another opportunity. There is also the IDOC they must pass. If the NC is not conditioned/prepared and fails the IDOC, they "may" get a second chance.

Its a cascading effect. Right now the Plebes are learning step by step, precept upon precept, the keys to success. If this develops a pattern not being able to pass the AFPT or IDOC and many more tests in the future it can be become a problem that leads to separation. i.e. Combat Survival Swim, March Back

When a Cadet struggles with an academic, physical, honor issue etc they become frustrated as they begin to fall behind. They may seek assistance (there are a lot of resources to help) and at times they recover.

Push Hard, Press Forward
 
1st, lets not hate on helicopter moms!

2nd, OP as long as your cadet passes apft, they will be fine. Many kids puke.
 
usmamomma2worried said:
The question was and still is is puking and falling out during morning pt a separation issue.
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I'm sorry you got such a hard time about everything else before a response to this.

The SAs generally and West Point particularly have really, really good physical education departments. What makes them really good at WP is that they have faculty who study and do research on how to train people physically, optimizing their performance, while minimizing injuries and psychological distress. They don't want people who will be capable of meeting and exceeding standards to quit. And thinking about the possible cascading effects is not helpful either. Puking is a not-uncommon reaction to runs - could be nerves, empty stomach, humidity, or something else. For now, your NC (and swabs, plebes, and doolies) are all adjusting to challenging physical environments and the stress of running faster. Your NC doesn't have to take the APFT for a grade for a few weeks. Your NC won't be separated! Keep encouraging your NC. Keep boosting their confidence and reassuring them. It WILL be okay!
 
I agree with tugboat and longagoplebe. My son is an athlete but even so when he joined an elite gym he threw up during every workout for a week or two. Even after two years he occasionally will have one that makes him throw up. Trust that they won't allow him or her to dehydrate and they will do everything in their ability to help them succeed, I completely understand how hard it is to know (s)he's struggling. Try to focus on the fact that they'll be so incredibly proud of themselves and gain so much self confidence if they push through. Hoping all turns out well for you and your new cadet!
 
I read this and my first thought was isn't that what they are trying to do, push them to the max and would not even think of it as a separation issue unless the NC wished to voluntarily leave. A quick note, my NC puked after the CFA right in front of FF rep. and a Lt. Col. I was speaking with. My initial response was embarrassment for him but then the kid he raced against also hurled and then I noted from conversation that they viewed it differently, as they know he tried his hardest and that is was what they want in these recruits. Have faith, they are being pushed hard but they will be tougher for it.
 
Passerby said:
1st, lets not hate on helicopter moms!
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Yes, let's pile on...if a mom is concerned enough to ask a question, but all means, let's call her a helicopter mom. Good grief. We have so many new parents here and the whole SA thing is totally foreign to them. How about cutting them some slack and answering their question with a little less snark?
 
15 years ago as I was about to commission I was told by the PMS at my college (an SF O6) that it wasn't a good PT session unless you felt like throwing up at the end. BLUF: what stays down or comes up isn't the issue for separation and I can't imagine why it would be. What is the issue is that cadets (future officers) meet Army standards first and then be able to lead.

The issue I am seeing isn't throwing up but if a cadet (or officer) is struggling to lead in the Army which regardless of branch is a physical business. That is what I counsel all my lieutenants and captains. They don't have to be the first guy in everything but as a leader they should be in the top 1/3 and I usually set the reasonable benchmark of a 270 APFT is an easy expectation for an officer. New cadets won't be there on day one but they better be by the fourth year and the first step is passing the APFT as well as other Army standards (12 miles in 4 hours with 35lbs which is a standard in 2 of 3 Army corps, 4 mile run in formation at a 9 minute pace) those are the benchmarks to set.
 
brovol said:
On an unrelated note, the only complaint my kid has had so far in his letters (only got two letters, and last was dated 7/3) was blisters on the back of his heals, which he also said isn't that big a deal, but if we could find some "thicker and harder moleskin", and could put a few pieces in the envelope with our next letter "that would be great". This might not even be an issue any longer for him, but we were not able to find any moleskin thicker than the regular stuff he took with him to R-Day. Does anyone know of anything that would fit the bill? Just curious in the event that he asks again. He was running a lot, and wearing the running shoes he took with him, so doubt it is those shoes causing the problem. I assume its the quarters, which he also had been wearing to break in. Hope by now he has callouses.
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Moleskin comes in many thicknesses if you get it from a podiatrist's office. Most docs have rolls of moleskin and they would be willing to help I imagine for a small supply cost.
 
When I talked to my son Sunday he said that the blisters are healing, and that they were caused by the low quarters, which he said they wouldn't be wearing again until A-Day. So hopefully he is good now.
 
Interesting Read.

Although my sons were ROTC not SA, they once told me that they always had a plastic lined garbage can set out during PT and at the end of the run for the APFT. Apparently it got used a lot, sons included at times. As far as I know they do not put an asterisk next to the APFT score if they happen to use that garbage can during the test.
 
OK... I just had to add this link. Nothing to do with the original OP's question but more about egressing your meal. As recommended in the article, eat bananas. Why? "because they taste about the same coming up as they do going down."

The following is my absolute favorite post by Rick Reilly who used to write for Sports Illustrated. If you haven't ever read it, I dare you to read through it without laughing out loud.

http://www.si.com/vault/1999/09/20/266696/on-a-wing-and-a-prayer
 
USMCGrunt said:
OK... I just had to add this link. Nothing to do with the original OP's question but more about egressing your meal. As recommended in the article, eat bananas. Why? "because they taste about the same coming up as they do going down."

The following is my absolute favorite post by Rick Reilly who used to write for Sports Illustrated. If you haven't ever read it, I dare you to read through it without laughing out loud.

http://www.si.com/vault/1999/09/20/266696/on-a-wing-and-a-prayer
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Immediately shared with DH and several Tomcat bubba friends - I read it a long time ago, great to see it - and howl again. The Milk Duds.
 
OK, I had a not so great day today. This was the perfect tonic. I haven't laughed out loud like this in a good while. Two Bags. ROFL
 
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