Service Selection

Each community will rack and stack everyone who put that community as a first choice by their own metrics. Whatever algorithm they use to rack and stack is an internal thing. Each community will meet periodically to select people and those who don't get their first choice will get shipped off to their second choice community. If they don't get their second, they will go to their third, and so on. The process will keep on going until everyone has their assignments. The assignments are not final, however. Some people will lose their assignment based on medical issues, not passing the nuke interview (Nuke SWO/Subs), cross commissioning, etc.
 
noco said:
Just out of curiosity, 1/C 's final selections were due last week. How does the process work now? Do certain warfare communities go down the first choice lists and grab 1/C who put it down first, or do they go by OOM and place those mids where they choose first? or is it something different? How do they decide who gets their first choice, second choice, etc...
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Some good process info in the governing policy.
 
While not USNA, the GWU folks last year managed to have 90% get first choice. And those that didn't, unfortunately, scored "too high" on their grades and wound up being "volun-nuked".

But these things can demonstrate the tyranny of small numbers. I have a much, much smaller graduating class compared to USNA.

And as I tell all my Mids.....if you want to guarantee your first choice, PICK SWO! :cool:
 
That memo confuses me. If I followed along correctly:

2nd-6th choice is limited to 6 selections, SWO, SWO(N), Pilot, NFO, Subs, MC.
MC is only allowed to be entered as 2nd choice or not at all. (assuming not first choice). It can also only be chosen if attended Leatherneck
SWO-N and subs require 2.5 CQPR.
Pilot and NFO require a qualifying score on ASTB and more restricted medical.

So, it seems that a significant number of MIDNs could have SWO as their only option? and many more would have less than 6 eligible choices.
Even if choosing MC 2nd, at least one of SWO-N and Sub would be required to be chosen, assuming a CQPR of 2.5 So, the Nuke draft would always be pulling from MIDNs who at least asked for it, regardless of how low.

It also seems like mastering game theory is required to best guarantee first choice.

I assume SEALS,EOD, IWC, etc are always over requested, so no chance in 2nd choice ever getting them? Is that why they arent allowed to be chosen 2nd-6th?
 
justme said:
That memo confuses me. If I followed along correctly:

2nd-6th choice is limited to 6 selections, SWO, SWO(N), Pilot, NFO, Subs, MC.
MC is only allowed to be entered as 2nd choice or not at all. (assuming not first choice). It can also only be chosen if attended Leatherneck
SWO-N and subs require 2.5 CQPR.
Pilot and NFO require a qualifying score on ASTB and more restricted medical.

So, it seems that a significant number of MIDNs could have SWO as their only option? and many more would have less than 6 eligible choices.
Even if choosing MC 2nd, at least one of SWO-N and Sub would be required to be chosen, assuming a CQPR of 2.5 So, the Nuke draft would always be pulling from MIDNs who at least asked for it, regardless of how low.

It also seems like mastering game theory is required to best guarantee first choice.

I assume SEALS,EOD, IWC, etc are always over requested, so no chance in 2nd choice ever getting them? Is that why they arent allowed to be chosen 2nd-6th?
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There are some people who are left with SWO as their only option. I personally had five options since I didn't seek a Marine Corps commission. It is not uncommon at all to have less than six options available.

SEAL and EOD will only take you as a #1 choice. The process to get considered for either is very involved (screeners, cruises, etc.). RL has to be #1 for those who are PQ for URL. Those NPQ for URL will submit a preferences for all RL communities they are qualified for. So they could get an IWC billet as a third choice, for example.

Marine Corps is a de facto first choice only community (and there is a sub preference of Ground and Air). The second choice thing is so people who put SEALs or EOD first can have a back up since the communities are so selective. Leatherneck is usually waived for those who are injured and prevented from attending as a result, those who are well qualified. but drank the Kool-Aid late in the game, and for those who couldn't fit Leatherneck into their summer training schedule, among others.

There isn't really (or should not be) any game theory associated with service assignment. You should just put what you want in the order you want it. There shouldn't be any "I'm gonna put NFO second after Pilot to show how dedicated I am to aviation even though I truly rather be a SWO if I can't be a pilot." People will burn themselves that way. Your career is not something game. Sort of like majors. Nobody is giving the Aero Major extra points on the aviation board. You shouldn't choose a major based off what community you want. Most communities don't care if you're a Mech E major or an English major. It is just a data point.
 
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Every requirement in an instruction can be waived unless specifically stated, and even then it might still be waived in exceptional circumstances.

In the same vein service assignments are not decided until the commissioning actually happens. 1/C USMC select can lose that assignment with an honor offense, graduate late with remediation, and commission SWO instead.
 
Dragomir said:
How does this "opening" of spots of work? If the limit is 10 then why would it matter if someone from NROTC or OCS got their application dropped? Wouldn't the limit still be exceeded if an 11th midshipman from the Naval Academy got accepted?

I don't mean to be rude, just curious at how this all works.
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The limit is rather arbitrary. The Navy is going to get the number of doctors it needs one way or the other. The Naval Academy is not about producing unrestricted line officers. The Navy gets its chaplains, doctors, nurses, lawyers, meteorologists, etc. from other commissioning programs. Nearly all assignments to restricted line communities are a result of the graduate not being physically qualified for an unrestricted line community. One of the few exceptions is the Medical Corps. That is a restricted line community; however, a midshipman can be physically qualified for an unrestricted line assignment and still be assigned to the Medical Corps. They make an exception for that community. By the way, a midshipman who gets selected for Medical Corps must still get accepted into a medical school on their own merit - just like every other medical school applicant throughout the nation. If a Medical Corps selectee fails to get accepted into medical school, that service assignment is revoked. That rarely (if ever) happens.

SIDENOTE: There have been years when the Navy would not allow any midshipmen to enter the Medical Corps. It wasn't an option. I'm convinced that the only reason the Navy allows a few midshipmen to become doctors is to use it as a "recruiting" tool to attract really smart candidates. They make them think that they can become doctors by attending the Naval Academy and, once they get there, it is discovered that the Navy severely limits how many get assigned. For example: Watch this highly deceptive TV spot the Naval Academy produced but no longer airs. It would lead an aspiring candidate to think that they can attend the Naval Academy and become a doctor. That's true! HOWEVER, the number of spots is so severely limited that it's not a realistic option.

My point is simply:

If there is a quota, then "break" that quota and allow qualified midshipmen who have that community as their first choice to still enter that community. If the quota was "broken" by, let's say, 12 midshipmen - then the Navy can simply reduce the number of slots by 12 for that community from the nationwide pool of all commissioning sources. There are well over 60 NROTC units throughout the nation! Then there's OCS.

If there is a limit, then "break" that limit and allow qualified midshipmen who have that community as their first choice to still enter that community. Handle it the same way as above.

In other words, it should be a soft quota or a soft limit - not a strict, inflexible one.

I guess what I'm saying is this: There has to be some kind of "perk" for getting accepted into the Navy's premiere officer procurement program. This should be one of them.
 
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Restricted Line communities have a star on their service dress uniform above the rank stripe and both collar devices are the same - Intel, HR, Meteorological, PAO, EDO, etc. This is the same as Unrestricted Line communities.

Staff Corps communities have their corps insignia on sleeve and on one collar, such as Med Corps, Dental Corps, Medical Service, Nurse, JAG, CEC, Chaplain, etc.

Restricted line communities may have command within their community, but successful career paths may include equivalent roles not necessarily command roles. Ditto Staff Corps.

Unrestricted line communities can command at sea or ashore, in or out of their communities.

All 4-digit line officer community designators, URL or RL, begin with a “1.” All Staff Corps officer designators begin with a digit other than one. Supply Corps: 3100. SWO, fully qualified, active commission: 1110.

A “5” at the end of an officer designator signifies Reserve.

This is all just ProKnow background for professional officer community literacy as the background of this discussion.

The full reference:

 
Memphis9489 said:
The limit is rather arbitrary. The Navy is going to get the number of doctors it needs one way or the other. The Naval Academy is not about producing unrestricted line officers.
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Above, in the first paragraph, I meant to say "The Naval Academy is not about producing restricted line officers."
 
Memphis9489 said:
If there is a limit, then "break" that limit and allow qualified midshipmen who have that community as their first choice to still enter that community. Handle it the same way as above.

In other words, it should be a soft quota or a soft limit - not a strict, inflexible one.

I guess what I'm saying is this: There has to be some kind of "perk" for getting accepted into the Navy's premiere officer procurement program. This should be one of them.
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Just my opinion on an internet forum:

The priority for any given community is not simply to accept qualified candidates, but best qualified candidates. The community should reserve the right to reject fully qualified candidates in favor of those best qualified. Warm bodies in billets is not the only consideration.

For example, an significant portion of prior enlisted Officers come from OCS. USNA and STA-21 still have relatively limited opportunity in comparison. That's value we want to continue to introduce to the officer corps, and should not reduce for the sole benefit of USNA grads.

The assertion that any given USNA grad is a superior choice for accession to some community over to any other commissioning source is unfounded. Sure, USNA mids work hard for their commission. So do NROTC mids. So does that PO1 who's been slowly and painfully working on a degree over eight years of sea duty to put in an OCS package.

In short: I don't think USNA grads deserve any special consideration here. "Premiere officer procurement program" is marketing.
 
Dragomir said:
How does this "opening" of spots of work? If the limit is 10 then why would it matter if someone from NROTC or OCS got their application dropped? Wouldn't the limit still be exceeded if an 11th midshipman from the Naval Academy got accepted?

I don't mean to be rude, just curious at how this all works.
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When I say "limit" - I mean the limit for how many USNA graduates can enter the Medical Corps.
Let's say that the Navy needs 60 new doctors. They may decide (arbitrarily) that no more than 10 of them can come from the Naval Academy. (I'm just making these numbers up.) The other 50 will come from other commissioning programs. If 11 USNA graduates are allowed into the Medical Corps - one over the "limit" - then 49 Medical Corps slots will be available to other programs. One way or the other, the Navy's needs are going to be met.

I'm just theorizing how it should work. I don't know how it really works.
 
nuensis said:
The priority for any given community is not simply to accept qualified candidates, but best qualified candidates. The community should reserve the right to reject fully qualified candidates in favor of those best qualified. Warm bodies in billets is not the only consideration.
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Do you think today's USNA graduates, seemingly subjected to more scrutiny in an effort to get a "perfect fit," are performing better than their less-scrutinized predecessors at their jobs? I actually do not know the answer to that question. If they are, then I'll concede my point.

Are today's USNA pilots better pilots than the ones 50 years ago?

Are today's USNA Surface Warfare officers more competent than previous years? (Which brings to mind: Why have I never heard of a SWO quota/limit?)

More midshipmen fail to get their first choice today than in years past. Yes, I know, most get their first choice. I'm talking about the not-insignificant number who do not get their first choice. I'm guessing today's Service Assignment methodology (more stringent) is fixing a "problem" that probably never existed.
 
@2019

are you saying that both navy spec ops and USMC have to be first choice options , one or the other, in order to receive navy spec ops or USMC as a service selection?
 
One small part of the equation is the comparison of Physically Qualified (PQ) and Not Physically Qualified (NPQ) Midshipmen, and how they are assigned to Unrestricted Line (URL) and Restricted Line (RL) duties. It does not affect a huge chunk of USNA graduates, but it is still a factor in some of the smaller communities. USNA makes it clear that it wants as many URL officers as possible, so of course 'needs of the Navy' will always come first.
www.usni.org

Navy Information Warfare Is a Second-Class Commissioning Community

Information warfare is the future of warfighting. The Navy's officer commissioning policy has not caught up to this reality.
www.usni.org www.usni.org
 
brewmeist said:
According to the link https://www.usna.edu/AdminSupport/_files/USNAINST_1301.5L_Midshipmen_Service_Assignment.pdf that @Capt MJ posted, SEAL, EOD, IWC, and potential medical or dental students must be the first choice. USMC can be chosen first, second, third, etc...
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The comment I was referring to was that USMC needed to be a de facto first choice in order to get USMC.

can I assume this is not the way it plays out as far as actual service selection And USMC?
 
Small Team Bacsi said:
The comment I was referring to was that USMC needed to be a de facto first choice in order to get USMC.

can I assume this is not the way it plays out as far as actual service selection And USMC?
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If you look under paragraph (a) under (1) First Preference on the top of page 5, the instruction says it is a first/second choice only. This is consistent with what I saw throughout my four years. The MARDET made it clear they weren't going to pick you if you didn't have it #1 or #2 (for the SEAL/EOD crowd). Marines are usually turning people away. The one exception I remember was Class of 2018's service assignment. They were pretty short on Marine Air selects (even after converting some Ground contracts to Air).
 
It is true that some 1/C may have less than 6 options. For example, a relative had only SWO and SWO(N) due to medical issues (measurements) for aviation, not doing screening for USMC, etc. Was happy with that, BTW.

If you're PQ for URL, I think it's VERY hard to get a RL or Staff Corps slot, other than medical. IOW, if you can go URL, they aren't likely to let you become a Supply Officer. Of course, officers can request transfer / redesignation to another community at a later time.
 
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