Stand and Fight …. No one gets out of this World alive

BH Liddell Hart and Sun Tzu would advise to try and leave him an honorable way to retreat. Don’t fully surround him with nowhere to go like a cornered animal, but leave a back door open so he can run.

I think 1.) Ukraine goes into negotiations for ceasefire and gives some small concessions, - enough to save Putin’s face and let his pride cool down 2.) then offer secret $1B bounties to friends, oligarchs and officials with bonus to the family for whomever quietly gets the Yahtzee. Call it a “health issue” and allow them to elect new Russian leader. 3.) give Ukraine their well earned place in NATO
 
Supersix00 said:
BH Liddell Hart and Sun Tzu would advise to try and leave him an honorable way to retreat. Don’t fully surround him with nowhere to go like a cornered animal, but leave a back door open so he can run.

I think 1.) Ukraine goes into negotiations for ceasefire and gives some small concessions, - enough to save Putin’s face and let his pride cool down 2.) then offer secret $1B bounties to friends, oligarchs and officials with bonus to the family for whomever quietly gets the Yahtzee. Call it a “health issue” and allow them to elect new Russian leader. 3.) give Ukraine their well earned place in NATO
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Much the same as being seen to remove missiles from Turkey during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Vlad certainly stepped in it, now, lend him a hose for his shoe to pretty things up again. Unless he has indeed lost his faculties.
 
Supersix00 said:
BH Liddell Hart and Sun Tzu would advise to try and leave him an honorable way to retreat. Don’t fully surround him with nowhere to go like a cornered animal, but leave a back door open so he can run.

I think 1.) Ukraine goes into negotiations for ceasefire and gives some small concessions, - enough to save Putin’s face and let his pride cool down 2.) then offer secret $1B bounties to friends, oligarchs and officials with bonus to the family for whomever quietly gets the Yahtzee. Call it a “health issue” and allow them to elect new Russian leader. 3.) give Ukraine their well earned place in NATO
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Concur with “health issue.” Madman’s face/eyes looked fried from opioids. The other option is using the ancient Roman way… remember Julius Caesar.
 
AF6872 said:
Soap flakes and petrol in a 55 Galon drum makes some great napalm. Saw a video last night of a guy pulling up to a Russian armored vehicle at the side of the road and asked them if they had broken down. Just out of gas. He asked them if they needed a tow back to Russia. Some strong people. Javelin is fire and forget and seems to be doing a great job.
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Need a quick risk assessment before usage i.e. a shelter for protection from raining napalm.
 
AP-Update:
Four days into the the fighting that has killed scores, Putin raised the stakes dramatically on Sunday, ordering the military Russia’s nuclear forces on high alert, citing Western countries “taking unfriendly actions against our country in the economic sphere” and “top officials from leading NATO members made aggressive statements regarding our country.”
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“Nuts,” General McAuliffe’s response to an enemy’s demand for surrender in Bastogne, December 22, 1944.

Madman needs to go. Period.

Signing off from forum.
 
kinnem said:
The Russians are stumbling but it's only what, day 5? They can still muddle through. I wouldn't be so cavalier about what they can accomplish, although I certainly want to see their butts kicked.
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Thank you @kinnem for trying stop what appears to be some sort of triumphalism.

Folks should go back and read the headlines prior to Grozny being obliterated. Or look at the attacks on Syrian civilians before and after this:

www.nytimes.com

How a 4-Hour Battle Between Russian Mercenaries and U.S. Commandos Unfolded in Syria (Published 2018)

Interviews and newly obtained documents provide the Pentagon’s first public on-the-ground accounting of one of the bloodiest battles the military has faced in Syria since deploying to fight ISIS.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

This thing isn't over and Putin will be determined get his pound of flesh one way or the other.

www.businessinsider.com

Putin is playing out his childhood nightmare

Putin feels cornered, and is not at all happy about it.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
 
Agreed, this game is barely starting. But the talk of nukes this early is unsettling because it indicates his lack of confidence in the other cards in his hand. The folks above who suggest leaving P an exit are wise. If things go according to plan he won't want a long, expensive, destructive war that affect the profits and/or utility of his growing empire. If it doesn't go according to plan he's going to want to grab and hold what he can at minimal cost and try again elsewhere. A major war is not good business, does not allow for empire building, and generally doesn't feel like his style. (I feel that the quiet seizure of the Crimean peninsula is what he's hoping for.)
 
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Take moments (regularly) to prayer that this doesn’t get too bloody. The Ukrainians won’t relent this time …. They’re all together in this, and we collectively are all together in this now too.

Quote from John Spencer, Chair of Urban Warfare Studies at The Modern War Institute of West Point in speaking about ordinary citizens taking up any arms they have. He said:

“Morale is 10 to 1 more important than anything else and Hope is the greatest weapon that you can ever have on the battlefield”.
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We spoke this morning to my wife's family in a small Polish town about 200 miles from the Ukrainian border, where she was born and raised--and we were married.

The town has a facebook page set up to organize donations of everything from food to clothes to empty bedrooms. There are a couple of small hotels that have offered to take in refugees free of charge.

I could visualize my SIL's eyes well up in tears when talking about the young people. "These are my former students who I thought didn't care about anything but their clothes, girl/boyfriends and Facebook pages. They are getting in their cars and heading to the border without a plan, but a goal to bring refugees back here to stay until they can return." One local guy drove to the border and held up a sign saying he has three empty seats, an empty trunk and will drive anywhere.

I hope to high heaven that it won't take a war to rearrange some of our priorities..
 
cb7893 said:
We spoke this morning to my wife's family in a small Polish town about 200 miles from the Ukrainian border, where she was born and raised--and we were married.

The town has a facebook page set up to organize donations of everything from food to clothes to empty bedrooms. There are a couple of small hotels that have offered to take in refugees free of charge.

I could visualize my SIL's eyes well up in tears when talking about the young people. "These are my former students who I thought didn't care about anything but their clothes, girl/boyfriends and Facebook pages. They are getting in their cars and heading to the border without a plan, but a goal to bring refugees back here to stay until they can return."

I hope to high heaven that it won't take a war to rearrange some of our priorities..
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I am connected to that region more so than most folks as well …. I am half-Polish because of my father.
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Boys, our little brothers the oppressed Ukrainians will greet you as liberators when you free them from the genocidal Nazi clique. They will offer you flowers and the women will smother you with kisses. The only thing to worry about is getting hit in the eye by the candy they throw at you...

And if you turn around your officers are under orders to shoot you.
 
EDelahanty said:
Boys, our little brothers the oppressed Ukrainians will greet you as liberators when you free them from the genocidal Nazi clique. They will offer you flowers and the women will smother you with kisses. The only thing to worry about is getting hit in the eye by the candy they throw at you...

And if you turn around your officers are under orders to shoot you.
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That is a bold claim. Can you cite a source?
 
Interesting remarks today from Ukraine Foreign Minister. He said the SWIFT sanctions were cherry picking banks and allowing vested parties to appear to be on board with the sanction in one hand while doing transactions with unblocked banks in the other hand. He worded it better than I did.
I had heard a pundit mention that very thing today as a concern as to whether the sanctions went far enough.
And wouldn’t P’s billions be spread all over the world and in many ways untraceable?
 
What I thought was just Sabre Rattling by Putin has really turned into a nightmare for humanity. I pray for the people of Ukraine and hope they prevail at the end. Unfortunately, they are the victims of this war. Events like these make me grateful that I live in a nation with a strong military and am able to live with freedom and liberty without the fear of another country taking that away from you.

That being said, I worry that this event could be emulated by China by invading Taiwan. I can only imagine how much worse that would be than Ukraine. Sanctioning China which would damage the global economy, getting involved militarily and with another global power. At least for the time being, I hope the Chinese government learns a lesson from Russia, no battle plan survives war, and taking over a country is never swift and fast as Putting hoped it would be. Our nation and the West also will learn that sometimes sanctions may not be enough to deter a determined Regime that is fueled by Nationalism.
 
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