What was your ACT?

[fencersmother]

When I was in the 9th grade, my family moved to a different state, and my folks knew it would be only a one year assignment for Dad. So, in this school, a student could "contract" for a grade (it was the 70s after all...). A student could "contract" to earn a C by meeting certain standards, and no amount of extra work, better skill, or demonstrated learning could increase one's grade. One could contract for a B, by doing/learning/demonstrating (on exams) superior knowledge/skill. An A required still more/better. One could always EARN a lower grade than one had "contracted" but not higher. I remember wondering why anyone would contract for a C.

Anyway, in our homeschool, I considered how to handle grades and scores, especially as kids moved into high school ages. The fencersfamily did NOT adopt this "contract" system. We simply lived by the 95% rule: if you scored less than 95, you had to re-do the whole unit as you did not demonstrate mastery.

 

[brovol]

Each of the academies post a class profile for the previous years class on those admissions page. Why? So prospective applicants can see where they stand and get an idea of what they need to get in. The best applicants have high character, which is what the academies want of course. Those with high character will attack their goal of an appointment by doing whatever they can to get as far above the bar as there can, leaving as little chance at failure as possible. Having said that, even as they will as good officers later in life, it is wise to understand the playing field, the competition, and the circumstances.

I think it it perfectly appropriate to ask what scores those who are being admitted have. That perspective is valuable. And it satisfies curiosity.

 

[MidwestDad]

Its far more significant within your Congressional district / state; you aren't always competing against the national average but against candidates for the same nominations. Look at average reported ACT/SAT scores for schools in your district; that gives you an idea of a 'normalized' score vs the national percentiles. There are some affluent districts in East Coast / West Coast where a 1500 SAT might not 'win your district' but a 1350 will in 'flyover' country.

Of course higher is always better but take a look at your immediate area to get a better idea.

 

[brovol]

Its far more significant within your Congressional district / state; you aren't always competing against the national average but against candidates for the same nominations. Look at average reported ACT/SAT scores for schools in your district; that gives you an idea of a 'normalized' score vs the national percentiles. There are some affluent districts in East Coast / West Coast where a 1500 SAT might not 'win your district' but a 1350 will in 'flyover' country.

Of course higher is always better but take a look at your immediate area to get a better idea.

True, but only as to the congressional slot. After that the senators spots are candidates within your state, and then the NWL is the entire country. At that point at least the general averages become pretty relevant.

 

[Christcorp]

Its far more significant within your Congressional district / state; you aren't always competing against the national average but against candidates for the same nominations. Look at average reported ACT/SAT scores for schools in your district; that gives you an idea of a 'normalized' score vs the national percentiles. There are some affluent districts in East Coast / West Coast where a 1500 SAT might not 'win your district' but a 1350 will in 'flyover' country.

Of course higher is always better but take a look at your immediate area to get a better idea.

That works fine if you happen to be the 1 person, and ONLY ONE PERSON, on your MOC's nomination slate who received the appointment. If not; then you will be going into the national pool. In which case you will be competing nationally.

As for our ORIGINAL POSTER, s/he has not replied with a 2nd post on any subject; let alone this one which he started. So obviously, s/he must not really care or be serious about this topic.

As for those who are serious; it is definitely normal to be curious about your competition. It has no relevance on your scores, efforts, application, resume, etc... But I understand the curiosity. This isn't a boxing match or other sporting event, where knowing your competition can prepare you to perform specifically for that competitor. In the end, nothing is gained trying to rank yourself.

Now; I think many would have replied differently; (I wouldn't have replied at all); if the OP simply asked. "This is my ACT score; how does it look". At least the "What are my chances" people are simply guilty of not searching first.

But I am including a lot of ASSUMPTIONS. This is why I almost never reply to a person's "FIRST POST". There are some people that ask a single question to stir up controversy. E.g. "What do you think about gays in the military". If that's someone's FIRST POST, they're probably a troll and the post should be deleted. Sometimes, a person makes their first post, wanting immediate response, and when they don't get it, they disappear. For this poster, they received a reply in about 30 minutes. So again; why, does a person post one time and never reply again after getting numerous responses? I don't know. But until that person comes back on the forum; all we're doing is speculating what information they're actually looking for. And I prefer to deal with facts. Speculation in this type of situation is a total waste of time.

 

[MidwestDad]

Sometimes, a person makes their first post, wanting immediate response, and when they don't get it, they disappear. For this poster, they received a reply in about 30 minutes. So again; why, does a person post one time and never reply again after getting numerous responses? I don't know. But until that person comes back on the forum; all we're doing is speculating what information they're actually looking for

Yes but these threads show up for years in Google searches; apart from the OP this archive of dialogue is valuable for many others who may or may not ever post here. I try to avoid controversy, judgment, or bias - just contribute something useful for the many others who might look to these forums now or in the future.

 

[Christcorp]

Exactly. Hence, why I mention in most of my posts, that I'm not necessarily responding to the OP; but rather to those lurking with similar questions or concerns and they aren't wanting to post the question directly.

 

[tsl42]

Thank you everyone for the responses and especially the ones who answered the question of the score they got. The question was geared more towards those who are currently attending or graduated and what they had to get in. I was only curious because my ACT wasn't as good compared to my almost perfect CFA score, high GPA, 12 varsity letters, as well as an insane amount of service and work hours. Just trying to get a feel as to where I land on the spectrum. I don't want to sound like every other kid on here who hopes to get in so they rattle off their entire life story about how good they are at everything.

 

[albNAPS18]

33 English
27 math

 

[MN-Dad-2016]

Thank you everyone for the responses and especially the ones who answered the question of the score they got. The question was geared more towards those who are currently attending or graduated and what they had to get in. I was only curious because my ACT wasn't as good compared to my almost perfect CFA score, high GPA, 12 varsity letters, as well as an insane amount of service and work hours. Just trying to get a feel as to where I land on the spectrum. I don't want to sound like every other kid on here who hopes to get in so they rattle off their entire life story about how good they are at everything.

If you were my daughter, my advice would be to scale back your service and work hours and plow those resources into ratcheting up your ACT scores. In other words, 1,000 work hours or 100 work hours will check the box "gives back to the community". Also, a service focused topic or two (with demonstrated passion) is perceived better than volunteering in 30 different random topics. In some eyes, it looks like padding hours for brownie points. Our DS focused on tutoring at the college because he loved to help others learn technical classes. At USAFA, he was passionate about giving back to underprivileged elementary students and started a USAFA Learning and Leadership Academy where USAFA students mentor troubled youth (and it is still going strong). That was communicated on his medical school application and he had something to write about too.

I've said this before, but it is worth repeating. On about 1/2 of the ACT tests offered, you have the option to buy the test questions from the exact test you took as well as your answers (this was the case a few years back so things might have changed). Meaning, you can see which questions that you got wrong and study those topics for the next round. To be clear, you can only buy the questions up front before you took the test (not after). So look into that option.

Boosting your ACT, maintaining your GPA or even raising it, and taking the most difficult classes will yield your best return on investment. Even if that means you need to loosen up time by removing one sport, so be it. The reality is as you know, every college (including USAFA) will be staring at that ACT as well as your GPA and level of class difficulty. So if you fall short of getting in your 1st year, having a better ACT will help you with plan B. Getting another sports letter, working even more hours at a job, and continuing to give back to tons of service hours won't be judged as impressive as a higher ACT score or better GPA/class difficulty. I am not saying this makes sense but we don't make the rules. Still, many colleges put a lot of emphasis on that ACT scores that's the game you need to play.

In closing, I'm convinced smart students can raise their ACT score several points if you put in the effort. I know you can do it but you probably need to reallocate your time. Because your sports and community service hour boxes have been checked. I wish you the best and I am rooting for you!!!!!!!

 

[brovol]

If you were my daughter, my advice would be to scale back your service and work hours and plow those resources into ratcheting up your ACT scores. In other words, 1,000 work hours or 100 work hours will check the box "gives back to the community". Also, a service focused topic or two (with demonstrated passion) is perceived better than volunteering in 30 different random topics. In some eyes, it looks like padding hours for brownie points. Our DS focused on tutoring at the college because he loved to help others learn technical classes. At USAFA, he was passionate about giving back to underprivileged elementary students and started a USAFA Learning and Leadership Academy where USAFA students mentor troubled youth (and it is still going strong). That was communicated on his medical school application and he had something to write about too.

I've said this before, but it is worth repeating. On about 1/2 of the ACT tests offered, you have the option to buy the test questions from the exact test you took as well as your answers (this was the case a few years back so things might have changed). Meaning, you can see which questions that you got wrong and study those topics for the next round. To be clear, you can only buy the questions up front before you took the test (not after). So look into that option.

Boosting your ACT, maintaining your GPA or even raising it, and taking the most difficult classes will yield your best return on investment. Even if that means you need to loosen up time by removing one sport, so be it. The reality is as you know, every college (including USAFA) will be staring at that ACT as well as your GPA and level of class difficulty. So if you fall short of getting in your 1st year, having a better ACT will help you with plan B. Getting another sports letter, working even more hours at a job, and continuing to give back to tons of service hours won't be judged as impressive as a higher ACT score or better GPA/class difficulty. I am not saying this makes sense but we don't make the rules. Still, many colleges put a lot of emphasis on that ACT scores that's the game you need to play.

In closing, I'm convinced smart students can raise their ACT score several points if you put in the effort. I know you can do it but you probably need to reallocate your time. Because your sports and community service hour boxes have been checked. I wish you the best and I am rooting for you!!!!!!!

Agree!

The "community service" is so subjective, and not uniformly regulated in HS, with some kids having ridiculously high CS numbers leaving a question of what was really done to earn them, and frankly, I don't think it really scores much with the academies. With USMA I don't think its calculated in the WCS at all. ACT/SAT is scored in a big way though, and regardless of the rest of the application, those test scores are always going to make a difference.

 

[VelveteenR]

The introduction letter from the Colonel at USMA admissions stated they wanted to see the standardized tests be taken several times by candidates They want to see tenacity.

That's fine if the applicant's initial scores are not competitive and need to get in range, but the college counseling office at our son's elite high school did not recommend chasing an extra point or two if the first sitting put the student well above average as colleges are simply using these scores to see if the kid can do the work and are more impressed by good scores from a single sitting than multiple attempts to cobble together marginally better scores. I understand that the academies put an actual weight on these tests, but our son took each once, was satisfied, and focused on other aspects of his applications/life.

YMMV.

 

[697biling]

Just trying to get an idea of what people scored on their ACT that got them an appointment for the academy. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Math: 28
English: 33
Science: 30
Reading: 28

Scores alone will not determine your competitiveness for USAFA, given that your scores are decent. Work as hard as possible for the 36, and do your best to excel in extracurriculars and academics

 

[MN-Dad-2016]

chasing an extra point or two

YMMV.

That's fine if the applicant's initial scores are not competitive and need to get in range, but the college counseling office at our son's elite high school did not recommend chasing an extra point or two if the first sitting put the student well above average as colleges are simply using these scores to see if the kid can do the work and are more impressed by good scores from a single sitting than multiple attempts to cobble together marginally better scores. I understand that the academies put an actual weight on these tests, but our son took each once, was satisfied, and focused on other aspects of his applications/life.

YMMV.

We disagree. When you fill out your ACT test, nothing says you have to send in the scores. Hence, the perception can be whatever you want. Meaning, don't check the box asking to automatically send it to X,Y, and Z schools. After you take the test X amount of times, then submit the one that you want the college to see. To be clearer, if you only submit one test (and the rest is never forwarded), the perception is only one is sent. The downside is if you tell them to send it later, it costs you a few more bucks per submission. This assumes things are the same way in 2017 as they were in 2012.

Furthermore, 2 points rounds you up about 5% to the right of the bell curve. So 31 versus 33 in the minds of some schools is a big deal. In fact, look at Dartmouth https://news.dartmouth.edu/news/2016/03/2176-students-offered-acceptance-class-2020 . They chase HS valedictorians (that's their hot button). In that link, you will see that 37% of the Dartmouth freshman are ranked #1 in their HS. MIT for instances chases 35 and 36 ACT students. But Stanford doesn't care if you have a 32 or a 36. They want to see ingenuity. If you started your own company or designed a _________ widget, you will catch their eye. If not, a 36 won't impress them. During the tour, admissions said "there are 36,000 valedictorians" and "13,000 students with a 35 or 36 on their ACT". Their message was impress us in another way.

So that is why I disagree with a blanket statement from your HS counselor; because it depends. Specifically for the SA, they care about the super score. They don't care how many times you submit. But for our DS, he was strategic in only submitting after the fact. Each school of his interest got different scores for the reasons above.

 

[VelveteenR]

I believe that even if you choose not to send multiple scores, the schools can still see that the test was taken multiple times, at least that was the case for the SAT. If you want any test super scored, the school will have to have the multiple datasets to do so. I don't have a horse in this race, just providing an alternate point of view, which is why I said YMMV.

 

[MN-Dad-2016]

I believe that even if you choose not to send multiple scores, the schools can still see that the test was taken multiple times, at least that was the case for the SAT. If you want any test super scored, the school will have to have the multiple datasets to do so. I don't have a horse in this race, just providing an alternate point of view, which is why I said YMMV.

I don't have a horse in the race either. The reason for my post is so that students reading this thread don't take your HS counselor advice as fact. He/She is wrong. I cannot speak for the SAT. Rather only for the ACT. The test taker dictates when and what is sent out. A quick google and here is some advice which agrees with my view point. See http://blog.prepscholar.com/should-you-send-the-four-free-act-score-reports

Edit. I "think" the HS's see the ACT scores no matter what. But the colleges don't unless you allow them to. It would also be prudent to reach out to your advisor and say : "DO NOT TAKE THE LIBERTY TO SEND MY ACT SCORES to any COLLEGES!"

 

[1meanteacher]

My son received his appointment letter two weeks ago. He took the ACT 4 times, and his highest composite score was 28. His super scores were 31 in both math and science, 27 in reading, and 24 in English. I understand your concern because my son stressed over his composite being below 30, but he still made it! Good luck to you!

 

[VelveteenR]

The reason for my post is so that students reading this thread don't take your HS counselor advice as fact. He/She is wrong.

Well, no. The policy of the college counseling office at our son's high school was no more than two attempts at either test. They've been in the business of preparing students for top colleges for over a century and a half. I'm not here to argue about HS policies, merely to point out that students who perform well in a single sitting don't need to chase points; they've proven they can do the work and time is better spent elsewhere. Anyone who doesn't agree is free to repeat tests as many times as they want. My comments are not targeted at those who need to get their scores into the competitive range but, as so many here can attest, you do not need perfect scores to be admitted to a service academy.

 

[USMA 1994]

There is no one perfect answer here and it depends on your DD/DS and the competition in your district this year. You need to understand how the scores are developed and then evaluate how you stand against the other candidates. Most offers of appointment are from a competitive slate and your WCS determines where you fall on that slate. The first 150 offers of the NWL also are based on your OML. Only the additional appointees, those to fill the class after the first 150, can have lower scores and be admitted over someone with a higher WCS. The academic portion is the biggest impact and you need to do well, but I would agree that chasing a point or two between 34 and 35 may not benefit your application much. Having a goal of 36/1600 is great but reality is most kids never get there.

Christcorp can correct me if I am wrong, but there is very little subjectivity in the development of each candidates WCS's. The RCs have a little room to add points for truly exceptional things but no matter how cool an award may sound, the scoring system keeps those things in check. Having a million community service hours would not score any different than having 100 as an example. The same goes for college re-applicants. It is not necessarily that the academy loves them and will offer them an appointment, they still have to win a slate or be the top 150 off the NWL. What the academy does is give a large boost to the academic portion of the WCS if they successfully complete a semester of college. This boost is not available to high school candidates so a strong kid that didn't get in on his first try will have a higher WCS than before if nothing else changes. So when you hear or read that the academy "wants to see" you should be hearing that these types of things are used to develop the WCS and that is whats important. There is no numerical impact on the WCS based on how many times you have taken the ACT. The impact comes directly from your scores.

The competition on your slate each year is the wildcard that cannot be predicted and still makes the process unknown. You could have two National Merit Finalist in a district this year that are also well rounded and good kids. One of those kids may not get in if they are only on one slate and a kid with the 31 and solid accomplishments everywhere else does not have a chance. While the next year, the kid with the 31 ACT could easily be the top ranked individual on his slate.

The best advice to the high school kids is to chase your passions, challenge yourself and do your best. Do not worry about things outside your control and the chips will fall where they may.

 

[brovol]

Well, no. The policy of the college counseling office at our son's high school was no more than two attempts at either test. They've been in the business of preparing students for top colleges for over a century and a half. I'm not here to argue about HS policies, merely to point out that students who perform well in a single sitting don't need to chase points; they've proven they can do the work and time is better spent elsewhere. Anyone who doesn't agree is free to repeat tests as many times as they want. My comments are not targeted at those who need to get their scores into the competitive range but, as so many here can attest, you do not need perfect scores to be admitted to a service academy.

The problem is though that an applicant does not know what scores he/she might need to get an appointment, and theoretically could need perfection if the competition in that district is so high that the candidate needs to match, all other things being equal. The other element is that all candidates are not necessarily measured by the same standard, and that a white male competing within the NWL may need a higher ACT score than a nonwhite male or female.

My son was told last year by a West Point RC that to be the leader in our district he needed to get to a 31 on his ACT, and have a great CFA. He told us that there was a female reaplicant who had a 30 ACT, and although the rest of her resume wasn't as good, she was the leader in the clubhouse, and if my son wanted to win that particular spot, he should shoot for the 31. He ended with a 32, with 34s in math and science.

My son didn't study for a 31 or a 32 on the ACT. He studied to do as well on the dumb test as he possibly could, and every time he looked at the scores he got on an ACT there was no particular score that he couldn't imagine, be that high or low. And I think that is how it is with most kids. Some of the great subscores he got on ACT tests were because he just felt he knew the material and performed well as a result; and then a couple were, as he put it, the grace of God, friggin luck (he got the 34 in science on his last exam, never had a science sore over 28 prior to that, and had no inclination that he did well on that test). But all a kid can do is work as hard as possible to get the best scores possible.