Army ROTC offers

[Pima]

OT, but I have to say the irony is most people do not even know how truly competitive the nursing world is from an academic POV.

I was ignorant too before my BFF's DD went into nursing and came to realize very few that enter the program make it through academically.

No offense to STEM majors, but IMPO nursing is the true killer curriculum in college. The way the system is set up is insane.

Sorry, north88 if that frightens you, but just believe he will make it. My comment was truly meant as a compliment on how amazing these cadets/mids are from an academic and ROTC pov. It takes a true balance especially when they do what a traditional student would call an internship, which is why there is such a high demand for them in the military. Why place that additional stress on you if you don't have to?

He will do fine. Obviously he has the brains. ROTC also looks at the fact that he was able to manage academic classes with outside factors (sports, ECs), illustrating he has time management skills. That is key for success in college. Kids that are book smart only have the hardest time when it comes to college because now they are thrown off kilter into a life where structure is gone, where they have more social options than a kid in a candy store for the 1st time. The book smart kid will gorge on the candy and get sick. The all round student will understand that the candy store will be there tomorrow and ration their visits.

 

[Jcleppe]

It is actually pretty simple, we as humans look for deeper issues.

Basically, she must fulfill 3 requirements
1. Be in AROTC as a freshman
2. Maintain the min cgpa
3. Get the PMS to check the box "support"

#3 is the one to worry about because it is the "out" for them. If they don't recommend than they will not be receiving the scholarship. However, before panic steps in, they really don't try to not give the scholarship...it is bad for morale.

Starting her sophomore yr., she will receive the tuition assistance, book allowance and monthly stipend like a 4 yr recipient.

Yet, there is still one more stipulation...pass the PFT.


Finally, I would not concern myself about the budget because in essence, the Army is placing that money aside, think an escrow account. Could it disappear? Of course. Chances of that occurring is not something I would less a second of sleep over.

Pima, coming from the Air Force you are really catching on quick to the ways of the Army, good post.

I want to preface this by saying that Nursing cadets are on a different playing field then others and what I say below does not effect them as much. Pima was right in her post regarding nursing cadets.

I did just want to add a couple things. First regarding the CGPA, being at the minimum will not be enough now. 3 yr AD scholarship cadets are on the same playing field as every other MS1 except the 4yr scholarship cadets. 3yr's will compete along with everyone for the number of contract positions that the battalion has available. The 3yr AD does not give you any advantage. If you are at the Min. GPA, and just passing the APFT, the chances of continuing on with ROTC and getting the scholarship is slim. 3yr cadets will be needing to dig in and compete hard if they want that scholarship and that contracted slot.

Pima, I think you would be surprised by just how many 3 year AD scholarship cadets don't move on to the MS2 year, I don't think morale plays a big part in it.

Again I know the previous poster was referring to a 3yr Nursing scholarship. What I wrote above pertains mainly to regular 3 yr. cadets.

 

[49er]

My son received his offer letter today for Army ROTC. Three year offer to his number one choice – The Citadel (out of state) and four year offer to UNC Charlotte (in state and my school - Class of 1990). While it would have been nice to receive a four year to The Citadel this was what we expected since it is an out of state school. Hopefully there will be some merit scholarship money from the school to help make up the difference. Everyone is still excited around my house no matter what!

 

[dunninla]

Pima, I think you would be surprised by just how many 3 year AD scholarship cadets don't move on to the MS2 year, .

Interesting... starting to get a small flavor of what AFROTC cadets face in the middle of their sophomore years when they find out if they will advance or not... and 45% not advancing last year has always seemed to me rather... draconian.

It would be good to know how many 3 Yr. ADs did not fulfill the terms of their Scholarship offer (attend Class and Lab, pass APFT, remain GPA eligible), and how many thought they had fulfilled the requirements but were not contracted due to PMS not recommending ... I suspect the second group could be counted on one hand, and would be owing to complete lack of enthusiasm, aka second thoughts on the part of the cadet.

 

[kinnem]

I agree with it probably being a handful, but I expect some just couldn't make the adjustment to college. It's not an easy transition to make and some are tempted be evil alcohol, etc.

 

[Jcleppe]

Interesting... starting to get a small flavor of what AFROTC cadets face in the middle of their sophomore years when they find out if they will advance or not... and 45% not advancing last year has always seemed to me rather... draconian.

It would be good to know how many 3 Yr. ADs did not fulfill the terms of their Scholarship offer (attend Class and Lab, pass APFT, remain GPA eligible), and how many thought they had fulfilled the requirements but were not contracted due to PMS not recommending ... I suspect the second group could be counted on one hand, and would be owing to complete lack of enthusiasm, aka second thoughts on the part of the cadet.

I think you will start to see the number increase for that second group you mentioned during this and the next few years.

As an example look at the school Ohio's son attends. They have 54 MS1's and only 24 contracts available, take away the eight 4yr scholarships and your left with 16 available slots out of 46. The 3 yr AD scholarship winners will be competing with the SMP's and all the walk on's on a level playing field. They won't get any extra credit for having the AD Scholarship. Over half of these cadets will not be invited back their sophomore year.

There is a 20% +- attrition rate among 4 yr scholarship winners and all they have to do is meet the minimums to keep their scholarship the first year. Meeting the minimums will no longer cut it for the 3 yr AD scholarship winners, or any cadet their first year, I would expect the attrition rate for 3 yr AD's to be much higher in the next few years.

There were three 4yr scholarship winners that started this year at my son's school, one has already left and another is in the process of being let go now. My son is the only one left, though they did just upgrade one 3 year to 3.5 year and contracted him last week. The rest of the MS1's are doing fine. I sometimes wonder what the heck CC is thinking in how they offer the scholarships.

 

[goaliedad]

I think you will start to see the number increase for that second group you mentioned during this and the next few years.

As an example look at the school Ohio's son attends. They have 54 MS1's and only 24 contracts available, take away the eight 4yr scholarships and your left with 16 available slots out of 46. The 3 yr AD scholarship winners will be competing with the SMP's and all the walk on's on a level playing field. They won't get any extra credit for having the AD Scholarship. Over half of these cadets will not be invited back their sophomore year.

There is a 20% +- attrition rate among 4 yr scholarship winners and all they have to do is meet the minimums to keep their scholarship the first year. Meeting the minimums will no longer cut it for the 3 yr AD scholarship winners, or any cadet their first year, I would expect the attrition rate for 3 yr AD's to be much higher in the next few years.

There were three 4yr scholarship winners that started this year at my son's school, one has already left and another is in the process of being let go now. My son is the only one left, though they did just upgrade one 3 year to 3.5 year and contracted him last week. The rest of the MS1's are doing fine. I sometimes wonder what the heck CC is thinking in how they offer the scholarships.

What was CC thinking? On paper, these prospective cadets look good. High GPA, excellent test score, knock 'em dead essay, great PMS interview notes.

Personally, I'd rather see the interview process be more than an hour or 2. I thought the overnight programs at SMCs were a good way for both cadet and cadre to get a feel for each other. Let's see how good this candidate performs at crack 'o dawn doing pushup ladders and a 2 mile run in the cold. Have them sit in a MS100 class and observe what the cadets have to learn. See how the prospective cadet reacts watching a uniform inspection. Does s/he look like a deer in the headlights? Or is s/he eating it up?

Army officers become very good judges of character when they can observe someone in a stressful situation. Too many candidates have too much practice at the 1 hour interview to expose any flaws. Dropping them into the daily life of a cadet is more likely to break down the preparation to expose the thinking that is going on with the candidate. I bet that would drop a few more interview scores.

As much as CC isn't "thinking", neither is the prospective cadet made to think about what s/he is really getting into. I think the weakness is more coming from a lack of input from the interview. I think Clarkson and Marist would agree that they were more confident in their own selections back when the PMS' had more control over the scholarships awarded.

 

[armyag]

Okay so got my letter today, one four year and two three year AD. In the letter it talks about the APFT, where is this going to be taken and when? I want to try to do it as early as possible.

 

[kinnem]

What was CC thinking? On paper, these prospective cadets look good. High GPA, excellent test score, knock 'em dead essay, great PMS interview notes.

Personally, I'd rather see the interview process be more than an hour or 2. I thought the overnight programs at SMCs were a good way for both cadet and cadre to get a feel for each other. Let's see how good this candidate performs at crack 'o dawn doing pushup ladders and a 2 mile run in the cold. Have them sit in a MS100 class and observe what the cadets have to learn. See how the prospective cadet reacts watching a uniform inspection. Does s/he look like a deer in the headlights? Or is s/he eating it up?

Army officers become very good judges of character when they can observe someone in a stressful situation. Too many candidates have too much practice at the 1 hour interview to expose any flaws. Dropping them into the daily life of a cadet is more likely to break down the preparation to expose the thinking that is going on with the candidate. I bet that would drop a few more interview scores.

As much as CC isn't "thinking", neither is the prospective cadet made to think about what s/he is really getting into. I think the weakness is more coming from a lack of input from the interview. I think Clarkson and Marist would agree that they were more confident in their own selections back when the PMS' had more control over the scholarships awarded.

Color me cynical. No doubt the process could be improved but I think it still ends up being a crap shoot. You can perhaps weed out those who won't make it through Freshman O, but the kids are going through too big of a transition that first year to consistently predict outcomes. But... When they do drop out of Freshman O, I too wonder what Cadet Command was thinking.

 

[kinnem]

Okay so got my letter today, one four year and two three year AD. In the letter it talks about the APFT, where is this going to be taken and when? I want to try to do it as early as possible.

I believe its done during Orientation. If not its very early in the semester. You must pass it by end of first semester to contract. No $ are forthcoming until you contract.

And Congratulations.

 

[Jcleppe]

What was CC thinking? On paper, these prospective cadets look good. High GPA, excellent test score, knock 'em dead essay, great PMS interview notes.

Personally, I'd rather see the interview process be more than an hour or 2. I thought the overnight programs at SMCs were a good way for both cadet and cadre to get a feel for each other. Let's see how good this candidate performs at crack 'o dawn doing pushup ladders and a 2 mile run in the cold. Have them sit in a MS100 class and observe what the cadets have to learn. See how the prospective cadet reacts watching a uniform inspection. Does s/he look like a deer in the headlights? Or is s/he eating it up?

Army officers become very good judges of character when they can observe someone in a stressful situation. Too many candidates have too much practice at the 1 hour interview to expose any flaws. Dropping them into the daily life of a cadet is more likely to break down the preparation to expose the thinking that is going on with the candidate. I bet that would drop a few more interview scores.

As much as CC isn't "thinking", neither is the prospective cadet made to think about what s/he is really getting into. I think the weakness is more coming from a lack of input from the interview. I think Clarkson and Marist would agree that they were more confident in their own selections back when the PMS' had more control over the scholarships awarded.

Boy you hit that nail on the head.

My first son received his scholarship the old way when the individual battalions offered the scholarship. The next year they went to the National system. My son's class is top notch, they all received AD and at least their #2 if not their #1 branch choice. The class following his well, thats a different story. While the other classes have their standouts there are those that you just shake your head at. I truely beleive the old system was better.

 

[Jcleppe]

I want to add something regarding my post #106.

I faied to mention that every battalion will be different in regard to evaluating 3 yr AD's. A large school with a very large MS1 class will have a bigger need to decrease their numbers creating a much more competitive environment for the 3 yr AD's.

A smaller school with a MS1 class that has the right number of cadets per their contract mission will be less competitive. In this school a 3 yr AD will be able to get by easier with the minimums.

Basically it will all come down to the needs of the battalion and their contract mission.

 

[kckillian]

Will there be more college offers?

My son received a 3yr AD to Villanova yesterday. It is the only school he has been accepted to so far, but it is early. They want an answer by Feb 29, however he won't get all his acceptances until March. Can he ask for an extension of time? Also, is it possible for him to earn additional ROTC scholarships from the other schools he listed or is that selection process done?

 

[kinnem]

My son received a 3yr AD to Villanova yesterday. It is the only school he has been accepted to so far, but it is early. They want an answer by Feb 29, however he won't get all his acceptances until March. Can he ask for an extension of time? Also, is it possible for him to earn additional ROTC scholarships from the other schools he listed or is that selection process done?

The scholarship selection process is done for your son. I assume Villanova was the only school listed, so he has to use it there. There is a slim chance they would allow a transfer but not likely. If you browse some of the other threads there were some recent posts on the transfer process but it apparently begins with accepting the scholarship. Of course you can always accept it and elect to go elsewhere without it.

Villanova is a fine school. Congratulations to your son.

 

[Northerner]

I want to add something regarding my post #106.

I faied to mention that every battalion will be different in regard to evaluating 3 yr AD's. A large school with a very large MS1 class will have a bigger need to decrease their numbers creating a much more competitive environment for the 3 yr AD's.

A smaller school with a MS1 class that has the right number of cadets per their contract mission will be less competitive. In this school a 3 yr AD will be able to get by easier with the minimums.

Basically it will all come down to the needs of the battalion and their contract mission.

Both my son and I read the Letter of Intent, and he will eventually decide between the 4-yr and the 3-yr AD Scholarship. I am going to try to help him decide, but eventually it will be his choice. However, from a strictly long-term monetary perspective (since I am his dad and I am responsible for the $$), is there a downside to choosing the 3-yr AD. I realize that tuition the first year is on me (but with his merit scholarship it's basically a wash). Let's assume that he'll have no trouble with the APFT because he was tested by a PMS for the scholarship process in the mid 70's for both push-ups/sit-ups and ran the mile in the low 6 min area, and he's in better shape now. So strictly from a business perspective, what's the risk of the 3-yr AD? I hate to put it in those terms - but I just don't want any surprises come August of 2013. Can he lose the 3-yr AD if he does what he has to do his freshman year.

 

[Jcleppe]

Both my son and I read the Letter of Intent, and he will eventually decide between the 4-yr and the 3-yr AD Scholarship. I am going to try to help him decide, but eventually it will be his choice. However, from a strictly long-term monetary perspective (since I am his dad and I am responsible for the $$), is there a downside to choosing the 3-yr AD. I realize that tuition the first year is on me (but with his merit scholarship it's basically a wash). Let's assume that he'll have no trouble with the APFT because he was tested by a PMS for the scholarship process in the mid 70's for both push-ups/sit-ups and ran the mile in the low 6 min area, and he's in better shape now. So strictly from a business perspective, what's the risk of the 3-yr AD? I hate to put it in those terms - but I just don't want any surprises come August of 2013. Can he lose the 3-yr AD if he does what he has to do his freshman year.

I have to run out for a bit but here are a couple thoughts.

As far as losing the scholarship, it will all depend on the size of the incoming MS1 class compared to how many contracting slots they will have. It isn't how well your son does, it's how well he does compared to everyone else. If he passes the PT with a 250 but everyone else has over that mark then even while passing he would be at the bottom. Is there a chance he could lose the scholarship, well, until he is contracted there is alway a chance, and with a 3yr that won't happen until the sophomore year. I'm sure your son will do fine and make it through the first year, but there are some other things to consider.

If your son uses the 4yr and passes the APFT as soon as he gets to school he will be contracted, there are advantages to being contracted the first year. Some battalions do not issue full gear to non contracted cadets. Tuition is paid plus 1200.00 for books, and the stipend the entire first year.

The biggest thing is that a contracted MS1 is eligible for summer programs during the summer following their freshman year. The most common program available to contracted MS1's is CULP, it is a cultural program the Army has that sends cadets all over the world. Google CULP or ask his school about it. My son is a MS1, 4yr scholarship, and contracted, he will be going to Bosnia this summer for 21 days to train and work with the Bosnian Military as well as service work. Contracted MS1's are allowed to apply for this program, 3yr AD MS1 cadets are not.

I'll send you a PM later today with some other thoughts.

 

[Packer]

My son received a 3yr AD to Villanova yesterday. It is the only school he has been accepted to so far, but it is early. They want an answer by Feb 29, however he won't get all his acceptances until March. Can he ask for an extension of time? Also, is it possible for him to earn additional ROTC scholarships from the other schools he listed or is that selection process done?

Your son is no longer under consideration for additional ROTC scholarship offers. It is good that he has already been accepted to the school they offered it at. Make sure you accept the scholarship. He can later decline it if he decides not to go to Villanova. By accepting it he will also be able to request a transfer to a different school, although it can be difficult to get the transfer approved. The first step is to accept the scholarship. Oh, and Congratulations to your son!

 

[Northerner]

I have to run out for a bit but here are a couple thoughts.

As far as losing the scholarship, it will all depend on the size of the incoming MS1 class compared to how many contracting slots they will have. It isn't how well your son does, it's how well he does compared to everyone else. If he passes the PT with a 250 but everyone else has over that mark then even while passing he would be at the bottom. Is there a chance he could lose the scholarship, well, until he is contracted there is alway a chance, and with a 3yr that won't happen until the sophomore year. I'm sure your son will do fine and make it through the first year, but there are some other things to consider.

If your son uses the 4yr and passes the APFT as soon as he gets to school he will be contracted, there are advantages to being contracted the first year. Some battalions do not issue full gear to non contracted cadets. Tuition is paid plus 1200.00 for books, and the stipend the entire first year.

The biggest thing is that a contracted MS1 is eligible for summer programs during the summer following their freshman year. The most common program available to contracted MS1's is CULP, it is a cultural program the Army has that sends cadets all over the world. Google CULP or ask his school about it. My son is a MS1, 4yr scholarship, and contracted, he will be going to Bosnia this summer for 21 days to train and work with the Bosnian Military as well as service work. Contracted MS1's are allowed to apply for this program, 3yr AD MS1 cadets are not.

I'll send you a PM later today with some other thoughts.

Thank you. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

 

[kckillian]

Your son is no longer under consideration for additional ROTC scholarship offers. It is good that he has already been accepted to the school they offered it at. Make sure you accept the scholarship. He can later decline it if he decides not to go to Villanova. By accepting it he will also be able to request a transfer to a different school, although it can be difficult to get the transfer approved. The first step is to accept the scholarship. Oh, and Congratulations to your son!

Thank you for your comments and congratulations. We are a bit confused because Notre Dame ROTC called him earlier in the month and said they would like to offer him a scholarship. My son told them that they were his number 1 choice after USMA, and he didn't receive the ROTC scholarship from them. Go figure! I am very proud of my son, this is just an overwhelming process.

 

[Jcleppe]

Thank you for your comments and congratulations. We are a bit confused because Notre Dame ROTC called him earlier in the month and said they would like to offer him a scholarship. My son told them that they were his number 1 choice after USMA, and he didn't receive the ROTC scholarship from them. Go figure! I am very proud of my son, this is just an overwhelming process.

Have your son contact the ROO at Notre Dame right away, let them know about the scholarship offer and find out if they can help or if they would be able to offer your son a campus scholarship, they are rare but do happen. That would be my first phone call. Don't accept the scholarship before you talk to them, you still have some time before you are required to accept/decline the scholarship.