Venting about parents on FB

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MDDAD never said the quality of officer is better or worse. The grads and current Mids I have come across are first rate. Leadership lab is a term that USNA has often used and it is. Not sure what the negative piece is to that. Actually not sure I ever said it was weak, maybe it was inferred by my talking about my experience. Plebe Summer for the most part has not changed all that much. There are some things like no bracing, limitations on PT, A/C that make us old guys always make comments about weakness. It's all in good jest. The last real plebe summer was always the one you went through. Heck I would of loved A/C! To be honest we all knew we weren't going to have A/C and we never knew any better. Bracing... Could care less they have took that away. The PT standards for corrective action change year to year. I think there is a happy medium to this that allows Detailers a handful of items to use within limits.

The Detailers are in training too and they need to learn how to use the tools at their disposal within their limits and train plebes. Detailers are learning one of the major leadership qualities they must develop... Learning to lead and own a process, order, etc from higher even if they disagree with it. If a detailer disagrees with their limits, it doesn't matter, they must continue and own the decision as if it was theirs. I am actually one of those that believes hazing has no place at a SA. Corrective action, constant pressure, constant training done within the regs is not hazing. Your career is over in the fleet if you haze, develop good leadership habits and traits from Day 1, not when you get to the fleet.

To be honest not sure how you measure a 'better officer'.' It's so subjective. You can use metrics I suppose from Evals. When I think how they would do that, it makes me head spin. I think USNA has done a good job of adapting to the changing needs of the service. The cyber center is great and extremely important as this field grows at a rate we can't even fathom. I think the well rounded education USNA provides is amazing and sets up a Mid for success. Every commissioning source has good and bad officers.
 
According to my DD, who's now a cow, Beast was hard but then it was over in no time. Plebe year was really hard. Much worse than Beast. She said that when Beast is over you think "I've made it" and then the real difficulties begin. If you think your child will have "made it" after Beast, think again. You need to be a rock for your kid during Plebe year because the psychological aspects of little sleep along with CONSTANT nagging and driving from upper classmen is difficult indeed. This is where the true fallout begins. This is where character is built and thick skin grows. Needing more hazing during Beast is really unnecessary. Beast is just one small hurdle. If someone is "weak" they'll bail during Plebe year.
 
Whitewolf I agree 100%. PS ends and you know it does. The AC year was much harder for me. It is long and tiring. I struggled academically so I was constantly stressing. The lessons I learned did help for me in the USMC and while overseas.
 
NavyHoops said:
Corrective action, constant pressure, constant training done within the regs is not hazing.
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+ loud voice = "hazing":shake:

What does the "Herndon Climb" accomplish? I could interpert that as a "hazing" - given a choice I don't want be half naked, possibly being crushed by other folks, to participate in some ritual. Of course, if I was a plebe at USNA, I want to the one that puts the hat on the top :)

What does putting a hat on a 21 feet greased up monument accomplish? Some folks would say it's right of passage, team building activity, tradition, and etc. Does it contribute to making a midshipman better Naval or Marine Officer? I don't know. My point is that the whole 47 months experience at a SA contributes how cadets/midshipmen turns out. If we start looking at just each individual actions/items without replacing them or their contribution to overall SA experience, and getting rid of them, we won't be able to distingish a SA from a normal college.
 
Agree 100% LG. Heck when Sea Trials was first started there was talk for it to replace Herndon, that got smacked down quickly. Herndon is a right of passage as a Plebe. One last hurdle to work as a team and accomplish the task at hand as one large team of over 1000 people. Man, I hated and loved that event all at once. Hahaha! Loud voice! What the Plebes don't see are their detailers sucking down honey, tea, lemon and anything else they can think of that someone told them would "help their voices" from all the gentle discussion.
 
Cringing each day I read a question from a 2019 parent asking when the "school supply list" will be out (they're not in elementary school anymore), how to send treats to their NC during Beast (you can't), annoyance at not seeing pictures of their NC, guilt over not being able to attend every.single.event coming up, and missing for the first time NC's birthday (s/he'll be fine). I get that these FB groups have become a place to bond, sympathize and get advice for NC parents (and even experienced parents), but it does seem to be getting out of hand. Just waiting for the other shoe to drop....
 
[QUOTE=" Just waiting for the other shoe to drop....[/QUOTE]

You know that shoe will drop...it does every few months...and you also know exactly how it will play out.
 
ca2midwestmom said:
Cringing each day I read a question from a 2019 parent asking when the "school supply list" will be out (they're not in elementary school anymore), how to send treats to their NC during Beast (you can't), annoyance at not seeing pictures of their NC, guilt over not being able to attend every.single.event coming up, and missing for the first time NC's birthday (s/he'll be fine). I get that these FB groups have become a place to bond, sympathize and get advice for NC parents (and even experienced parents), but it does seem to be getting out of hand. Just waiting for the other shoe to drop....
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I am sure each branch has a site like the AF. Baseops.net is one of the AF forum sites. I see on here every now and then about how mean some threads become. I laugh because if you go to Baseops.net your opinion will change dramatically. This is truly the kiddie pool.
~ I have lurked there for 5+ years, and never ever would I dream of posting there. I am not a masochist. That is the real AF that their babies will be playing with when they commission.

Just saying if you belong to those FB groups, it might help those parents to get a glimpse into forums where AD members talk.

I also feel like we also don't do enough to educate/inform candidates about cutting the apron strings during their senior year. Heck, the fact that many posters ask about their HS curriculum or re-taking the SAT/ACT begs the question what would you do if the internet did not exist, like it didn't for your parents back in the 80s/90s when they applied for college? Hint GC! If you don't rely on them, than why on earth do we have them in our HSs? Isn't that part of their job to inform/guide our kids for post HS?

I don't get these parents. They want the status/pride of their kid being nominated or appointed to an SA, but not what is tied to it.

The other shoe dropping will occur when they go Active Duty....what do you mean you can't come home for your Grandparents 50th wedding anniversary. or the you can't come home from baby brothers HS graduation?

Off topic, but on topic. If you have HBO, watch the Real Sports episode about awarding trophies to every participant and how it has impacted the next generation regarding success. How kids now freak in college because it is the 1st time they were told they were not that special snowflake, How we, as a society, did damage to them. Not swearing here, but I believe they said 85-90% of ALL college students believe they deserve no less than a B.

Just saying to me, helo parent is someone that believes Johnny or Janie is a special snowflake. That they expect to always be number 1 in their life. They are the ones that believe not their Johnny or Janie. That a bad grade means the educator had it in for their child.
 
Pima said:
The other shoe dropping will occur when they go Active Duty....what do you mean you can't come home for your Grandparents 50th wedding anniversary. or the you can't come home from baby brothers HS graduation?
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If so, that's bad. Things like voluntary, conduct, academic, or honor code violation separation come to my mind as a "shoe dropping."
 
Sledge said:
There seem to be a good number of parents, not all certainly, that are totally wrapped up in the prestige and "no-cost" aspect of West Point. To them, the whole "Army thing" is just a side note. They want the prestige, cache, and network that a West Point education will provide their child. For them, there is a total disconnect about the end goal: to produce outstanding officers to lead the enlisted soldiers in defense of our nation.
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I love this so much! I don't know how those parents get anything done during the day for patting themselves on the back. It's especially enjoyable when they turn their noses up at the kids who go to civilian colleges. Ewww!
 
MemberLG said:
...Things like voluntary, conduct, academic, or honor code violation separation come to my mind as a "shoe dropping."
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I can only imagine the uproar from a helo parent if little timmy/sue call home for a conduct, academic, or honor code violation. I think for a voluntary a helo parent would just blame the AFA because it couldn't be their child's fault and would be really ok if they came back home anyway it's what the helo parents want I think. More control of the child's life choices.
 
Pima said:
Off topic, but on topic. If you have HBO, watch the Real Sports episode about awarding trophies to every participant and how it has impacted the next generation regarding success. How kids now freak in college because it is the 1st time they were told they were not that special snowflake, How we, as a society, did damage to them. Not swearing here, but I believe they said 85-90% of ALL college students believe they deserve no less than a B.

Just saying to me, helo parent is someone that believes Johnny or Janie is a special snowflake. That they expect to always be number 1 in their life. They are the ones that believe not their Johnny or Janie. That a bad grade means the educator had it in for their child.
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report.jpg
 
Sledge I don't know whether I am crying because that cartoon is so funny or it is so true.
 
I love the cartoon. I remember interviewing a young man about 10 years ago. He'd been a teacher in an inner city school for a number of years and had left it to attend law school. I naturally asked him why the change. He replied that, when he was a student and the teacher claimed he'd done something wrong, hadn't worked to potential, etc., his parents took the side of the teacher. As a teacher, when he informed the parents that their precious child had done something wrong, etc., the parents came after him. He said got tired of it -- basically beating his head against the wall. He seemed like a great guy. A real shame for the kids, BTW.
 
When my kids were in school, starting in elementary, I would walk right up to the teacher with my child (welcome nights), and as I did introductions I would say to them you spend more waking hours with my child everyday than I will, you have my complete support. Feel free to call me at anytime.

I did this for 2 reasons.
1. Teachers felt I supported them right off the bat.
2. My kids were put on notice that I was on the teachers side, so don't play us!

That is really to me where it comes down now. I am bias because I was an educator for several years. Our DD just got her Master of Education just this year and will be molding our future generations young minds starting this fall. (HS)
 
Sledge said:
There seem to be a good number of parents, not all certainly, that are totally wrapped up in the prestige and "no-cost" aspect of West Point. To them, the whole "Army thing" is just a side note. They want the prestige, cache, and network that a West Point education will provide their child. For them, there is a total disconnect about the end goal: to produce outstanding officers to lead the enlisted soldiers in defense of our nation.
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ca2midwestmom said:
Cringing each day I read a question from a 2019 parent asking when the "school supply list" will be out (they're not in elementary school anymore), how to send treats to their NC during Beast (you can't), annoyance at not seeing pictures of their NC, guilt over not being able to attend every.single.event coming up, and missing for the first time NC's birthday (s/he'll be fine). I get that these FB groups have become a place to bond, sympathize and get advice for NC parents (and even experienced parents), but it does seem to be getting out of hand. Just waiting for the other shoe to drop....
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Meanwhile, in the universe over here at USNA that mirrors USMC we've got some FB stuff worthy of '50's comedy shows...can't wait for summer boys/girls camp to be over so the harshness, pain and suffering will all go away and we can get into the classroom of this prestigious university, which, after everything, it's all about...(sarcasm intended). Many missed the message on the best T-shirt available in the midshipman store on I-Day...simply says "Not College"
 
I have really been enjoying this thread! It's been a welcome relief to hear a little more "reality" out there. Quite frankly, I worry about some of these parents. What are they thinking?

I am a mom of a 2019 at USMA. Yes, I am proud of him. Yes, I am worried about him. But maybe it's being a military spouse, maybe it's because I know he is as ready as he can be for this, but I am not freaking out like many of the moms on the FB page seem to be. Often, I have had to resist the urge to type something I will regret. But I have to say, that the most shocking thing for me is what I witnessed on R-Day. We said our goodbyes and he went off into the recesses of Ike hall to start what would be a very rough day for him. I assumed I wouldn't see him again until the parade, and that I would most likely not be able to pick his newly shaved head out of the crowd. Little did I know that when my daughter and I took a walk to find the C-Store, that I would find paparazzi lining the sidewalks! They were camped out with cameras, watching for their CC (cadet candidate) and in some cases, calling out their name when they spotted him/her. That was quite the surprise for me. Do these kids need the added pressure of this while dealing with all that they already have to deal with that day? How do these parents think that this is helpful in any way, other than only to satisfy their own selfish need to see their kid "one more time."

I feel so much better getting that off of my chest! (It's been bothering me since R-Day) But let me add to the story..... As my daughter and I were picking our way through the crowds of parents, we noticed quite a few looking down between the library and Grant Hall, and peeked to see what the interest was about. We saw several groups of in-processing CC's in PT uniforms waiting to report to the Cadet in the Red Sash, waiting to go somewhere, studying their books, etc. I said this was silly and like we were watching animals in a zoo and that we needed to get out of there, but before we could move a group came through to head across the street. We moved aside to make room, and who was the first NC at the head of the line? My son! We said nothing to him, I didn't pull out my phone to take a picture, and we let him pass within inches of us exchanging only eye contact and a smile. I wouldn't have had it any other way, nor do I think he would. The only problem now is that he may never believe that we weren't stalking him! Lol!

I have to add that I was a regular lurker here on the forums while my son was going through the application process and getting ready to report after his appointment. There were SO many little tips and tidbits learned here on the forums that were very helpful, not only to me as a parent, but to him also. Thanks to all for your contributions to this network!
 
Basketcase said:
They were camped out with cameras, watching for their CC (cadet candidate) and in some cases, calling out their name when they spotted him/her. That was quite the surprise for me. Do these kids need the added pressure of this while dealing with all that they already have to deal with that day? How do these parents think that this is helpful in any way, other than only to satisfy their own selfish need to see their kid "one more time."
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I remember when Bullet was jumping as an AF ALO with the 82nd. Haiti came about and AD members were sent to a controlled area for @48-72 hours prior to the mission. Bullet said there were spouses screaming outside the building looking for them.

I recall that invasion to be. The phone rang as we were leaving for church Sunday a.m. He hung up the p hone and said take the kids, I have to go into work. Stop by the det. on base afterwards. Got there and knew something was up. However for Opsec we went silent to our family. Yet, the news already picked up on something big was happening.
~ Hard to hide all of those C130s, C5s, C141s on the runway. Nor every military member buying specific items at CVS because the BX/PX was sold out, or finally couples getting married at the courthouse.
 
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