What is the general USNA attitude towards the medical corps?

[auk]

Hello all, what is the general USNA attitude towards those that choose to go to the Navy Medical Corp and enter medical school directly after USNA? (https://www.usna.edu/ChemDept/ChemMajor/med-corps-info.php)

I have heard, from those that are not midshipmen, the military tends to "disapprove" of this track.

During my BGO interview, my BGO asked me what I wanted to do after the academy. I told them I was interested in the medical corps and they said that was not a "good reason" to go to the academy because the academy doesn't have premed and there are better civilian colleges for medicine. They were pretty disapproving of my answer.

I understand that as I have done my research on what going medical would entail via USNA and have talked to/the contacts of midshipmen at USNA currently pursuing the medical track. I don't want to attend USNA to become a doctor, I want to go to the academy to serve.

I was surprised at their response to my answer... any insights or thoughts?

 

[Kierkegaard]

I’m not a BGO, but as an alum I can tell you this: If I were giving you advice on your decision to apply to the Academy to pursue Med Corps, I would have handled it differently. While it’s true only about 1% of each class commissions into the Med Corps, you have to remember that the vast majority of mids are not aiming to be docs. 1/C MIDN who have the top-notch grades and MCAT necessary to get into medical school are very likely to receive a Med Corps service assignment if they pursue it. This is difficult of course, but it’s a pretty straightforward path.

While USNA doesn’t have a “pre-med” track, many midshipmen pursuing Med Corps will major in chemistry so that the pre-reqs are built into their course matrix. Otherwise, it may require overloading credits (Taking 20 or more in one semester—Yuck).

If your BGO’s point was that your desire to be a doctor is not a good reason to pursue USNA, then wholeheartedly agree. USNA is focused on churning out unrestricted line officers (Think surface warfare officers, submariners, and pilots). There are definitely much easier ways to get to med school. Time is a HOT commodity when you’re a midshipman. It’d be much easier to find time study for your chem class and MCAT at a civvy school. That is the reality. BUT…You say that’s not the reason you want to attend USNA. You want to serve. Presumably, if the Med Corps thing doesn’t pan out somehow, you’d be willing to be a line officer. If that’s the case, and you desire that unique service academy experience, then USNA could be a good option for you.

 

[severn]

Hello all, what is the general USNA attitude towards those that choose to go to the Navy Medical Corp and enter medical school directly after USNA? (https://www.usna.edu/ChemDept/ChemMajor/med-corps-info.php)

I have heard, from those that are not midshipmen, the military tends to "disapprove" of this track.

During my BGO interview, my BGO asked me what I wanted to do after the academy. I told them I was interested in the medical corps and they said that was not a "good reason" to go to the academy because the academy doesn't have premed and there are better civilian colleges for medicine. They were pretty disapproving of my answer.

I understand that as I have done my research on what going medical would entail via USNA and have talked to/the contacts of midshipmen at USNA currently pursuing the medical track. I don't want to attend USNA to become a doctor, I want to go to the academy to serve.

I was surprised at their response to my answer... any insights or thoughts?

... just sharing some anecdotes. According to DS 3/C, his friend studies the MCAT during home football games.

 

[usna1985]

Agree with Kierkegaard.

Let me try to explain from the BGO perspective. Every year, quite a few candidates say they want to go Medical Corps. One year, I had 3 of my 10 candidates tell me that. There are 3000+ BGOs. Do the math on the number of times BGOs hear this.

USNA allows a MAX of 24 to attend med school each year and, for recent years at least, the actual number has been 10-12. Out of around 1000 graduates

The fact is most kids who start at USNA wanting to be an MD will not be able to for various reasons. Thus, they'd better have a Plan B and Plan C and Plan D that don't involve medicine for at least 5 years upon graduation. (As an aside, a not insignificant number of graduates attend med school after their 5 year obligation is over).

In addition, most candidates haven't researched the commitment that is required. If you attend USUHS, you have 5 years from USNA + 7 from USUHS for a total of 12. Years in residency don't count toward payback. So you're looking at 20 years as a Navy doctor. The commitment is somewhat less if attending civilian school, but the financial cost to you is somewhat higher.

If someone's primary goal in life is to be an MD and go straight through (college to med school), there are options other than USNA that make this scenario much more likely and maybe easier. USNA's stated goal is to produce warfighters, not doctors, and the service assignment reflects that (1% go to med school; 99% do something else).

BGO's know all of the above and thus want to be realistic with bright-eyed candidates. It may come across as "discouragement,"; I'd call it realism. Thus, if you want to be a doctor, it's better to tell your BGO: "I'd love the chance to go to med school upon gradation [and show you've done a lot of research into it] but I'm also really excited about the opportunity to be [a Naval aviator, a Marine ground officer, etc.]. And show you're familiar with your other options and very open to them.

Once at USNA, I don't think anyone really cares whether you intend to be a doctor. It was a very new (old) thing in my day (my roommate went to med school). I think people were more intrigued than anything

 

[auk]

Agree with Kierkegaard.

Let me try to explain from the BGO perspective. Every year, quite a few candidates say they want to go Medical Corps. One year, I had 3 of my 10 candidates tell me that. There are 3000+ BGOs. Do the math on the number of times BGOs hear this.

USNA allows a MAX of 24 to attend med school each year and, for recent years at least, the actual number has been 10-12. Out of around 1000 graduates

The fact is most kids who start at USNA wanting to be an MD will not be able to for various reasons. Thus, they'd better have a Plan B and Plan C and Plan D that don't involve medicine for at least 5 years upon graduation. (As an aside, a not insignificant number of graduates attend med school after their 5 year obligation is over).

In addition, most candidates haven't researched the commitment that is required. If you attend USUHS, you have 5 years from USNA + 7 from USUHS for a total of 12. Years in residency don't count toward payback. So you're looking at 20 years as a Navy doctor. The commitment is somewhat less if attending civilian school, but the financial cost to you is somewhat higher.

If someone's primary goal in life is to be an MD and go straight through (college to med school), there are options other than USNA that make this scenario much more likely and maybe easier. USNA's stated goal is to produce warfighters, not doctors, and the service assignment reflects that (1% go to med school; 99% do something else).

BGO's know all of the above and thus want to be realistic with bright-eyed candidates. It may come across as "discouragement,"; I'd call it realism. Thus, if you want to be a doctor, it's better to tell your BGO: "I'd love the chance to go to med school upon gradation [and show you've done a lot of research into it] but I'm also really excited about the opportunity to be [a Naval aviator, a Marine ground officer, etc.]. And show you're familiar with your other options and very open to them.

Once at USNA, I don't think anyone really cares whether you intend to be a doctor. It was a very new (old) thing in my day (my roommate went to med school). I think people were more intrigued than anything

Thank you for the well put answer! From the research I have done on options from the academy, I am also interested in surface warfare. Becoming a doctor is not my final goal (or I would not be applying for USNA.) I found this really insightful and will work on this response.

I’m not a BGO, but as an alum I can tell you this: If I were giving you advice on your decision to apply to the Academy to pursue Med Corps, I would have handled it differently. While it’s true only about 1% of each class commissions into the Med Corps, you have to remember that the vast majority of mids are not aiming to be docs. 1/C MIDN who have the top-notch grades and MCAT necessary to get into medical school are very likely to receive a Med Corps service assignment if they pursue it. This is difficult of course, but it’s a pretty straightforward path.

While USNA doesn’t have a “pre-med” track, many midshipmen pursuing Med Corps will major in chemistry so that the pre-reqs are built into their course matrix. Otherwise, it may require overloading credits (Taking 20 or more in one semester—Yuck).

If your BGO’s point was that your desire to be a doctor is not a good reason to pursue USNA, then wholeheartedly agree. USNA is focused on churning out unrestricted line officers (Think surface warfare officers, submariners, and pilots). There are definitely much easier ways to get to med school. Time is a HOT commodity when you’re a midshipman. It’d be much easier to find time study for your chem class and MCAT at a civvy school. That is the reality. BUT…You say that’s not the reason you want to attend USNA. You want to serve. Presumably, if the Med Corps thing doesn’t pan out somehow, you’d be willing to be a line officer. If that’s the case, and you desire that unique service academy experience, then USNA could be a good option for you.

I appreciate your response! Yes, if med corps doesn't work out I will gladly serve as a line officer. I want to serve and to lead but I mentioned an interest in the Med Corps because of my interest in the subject field.

 

[MidCakePa]

Great responses above. The advice goes for any “first choice”: If you don’t get it, are you ready and willing to serve in other warfare communities? Many mids start with their heart set on SEALs, aviation, Marine Corps, etc. What if an injury at USNA precludes SEALs? What if a below-average GPA precludes aviation? What if the Marines don’t think you’re a good fit? Will you be happy with #2 or #3 or #4 on your list? As mentioned above, it’s all rooted in “desire to serve” — according to the needs of the Navy and Marine Corps, which always comes first.

 

[justdoit19]

It sounds like, from your BGO interview post, that maybe there could have been a misunderstanding between what you are thinking, and what your BGO heard.

If this is the case, perhaps you could reach out to your BGO to seek some clarification and understanding, explaining that you aren’t certain what you were trying to express, is what he understood.

I would be open to another visit, if I had someone reach out to me. Most BGO’s don’t submit their reports immediately. So there could be time to contact them and seek additional discussion.

BGO’s are free to run their interview process however they want, within guidelines. So your BGO may not be interested at all in further discussion. And if you do reach out, make sure you have researched everything on the USNA.edu website. And PRACTICE interviewing.

Ditto what a @Kierkegaard and @usna1985 said. And if you portrayed that USNA is how you want to become a DR? You may have shut down your BGO’s interest, for reasons they stated.

Doesn’t hurt to ask for further discussion. Especially if he is doing them virtually. Worst case, is he says no. You can reapply of an appointment isn’t obtained, and will be assigned a different BGO.

 

[bshark_1123]

I just wrote about this in another post so I'll put this here too. The consensus among everyone who I've talked to who was a mid and is now either a medical student or voluntarily/involuntarily decided against it is that USNA is a very difficult place to become a medical doctor. The best way to become a military doctor is to go to a civilian school (don't do ROTC), do a pre-med track, get accepted to USUHS or another medical school then apply for HPSP. This way, you don't get the "needs of the Navy" until they're investing government money into your medical education.

There are a lot of things competing for your time. All your research, shadowing, and volunteering will have to be done on your own time, and you will have to deal with restrictions on your freedom while you try to do all of this (you won't likely be allowed to leave during weekdays without special permission and forget driving until you're a junior). Your weekends will get eaten up (studying for the MCAT at Saturday mandatory football games is indeed a real thing...). Also, like someone else mentioned, those who do end up going medical corps have the largest service commitment of anyone. If you go to USUHS for medical school, you will owe 5 years for USNA + 7 years for USUHS + however long your residency is (it's actually significantly more complicated but this formula works most of the time).

All of this being said, there are around 10 people who successfully do this every year. If you are willing to put every ounce you have into this dream, you could certainly be one of them. The academy certainly does not frown upon those going medical corps, but there are limited spots and generally more who want to do it than get to. Even more common are the people who decide that it isn't worth it for them.

The academy doesn't have a "pre-med" track, but you can hit most school's pre-reqs by majoring in chemistry and making room for bio I and II. Crazy people major in other things too but you'd better be ahead or enjoy taking 20+ credit hours per semester while waking up at 0530 for brigade PT.

 

[Kierkegaard]

I just wrote about this in another post so I'll put this here too. The consensus among everyone who I've talked to who was a mid and is now either a medical student or voluntarily/involuntarily decided against it is that USNA is a very difficult place to become a medical doctor. The best way to become a military doctor is to go to a civilian school (don't do ROTC), do a pre-med track, get accepted to USUHS or another medical school then apply for HPSP. This way, you don't get the "needs of the Navy" until they're investing government money into your medical education.

There are a lot of things competing for your time. All your research, shadowing, and volunteering will have to be done on your own time, and you will have to deal with restrictions on your freedom while you try to do all of this (you won't likely be allowed to leave during weekdays without special permission and forget driving until you're a junior). Your weekends will get eaten up (studying for the MCAT at Saturday mandatory football games is indeed a real thing...). Also, like someone else mentioned, those who do end up going medical corps have the largest service commitment of anyone. If you go to USUHS for medical school, you will owe 5 years for USNA + 7 years for USUHS + however long your residency is (it's actually significantly more complicated but this formula works most of the time).

All of this being said, there are around 10 people who successfully do this every year. If you are willing to put every ounce you have into this dream, you could certainly be one of them. The academy certainly does not frown upon those going medical corps, but there are limited spots and generally more who want to do it than get to. Even more common are the people who decide that it isn't worth it for them.

The academy doesn't have a "pre-med" track, but you can hit most school's pre-reqs by majoring in chemistry and making room for bio I and II. Crazy people major in other things too but you'd better be ahead or enjoy taking 20+ credit hours per semester while waking up at 0530 for brigade PT.

+10,000 to this. Completely agree.

Pour conclure: If you primarily want to be a navy doctor there a more straightforward paths. If really you want to be a Naval Academy graduate + a Navy doctor, it is definitely a doable path—just really hard, and you have to be prepared for the powers that be to send you on another path.

 

[usna1985]

As I mentioned above, you don't have to go straight through. USNA's medical officer spoke on this subject at BGO training years ago. His view: "Do something fun for at least 5 years and then go to medical school." My USNA roommate was a Navy MD who attended USUHS. There are a good number of people in each class who spent time on AD in another field and then decided to attend medical school. Even more attend law school. Some go on to become priests. IOW, if your desire to be a doctor still burns, you can still do it later in life. Some additional challenges, of course, but that's not a big deal for a SA grad!

 

[NavyHoops]

I think everyone above has provided great information above. The other thing to remember is you have less control of your specialty as an MD. Its needs of the Navy. Sure matching in the civilian world is no easy task, but if you want to be a Radiologist, and the Navy doesn’t need any that year you are set to graduate, you won’t have a shot as a Radiologist.

I have a buddy who is a USMA grad. Infantry guy with a Ranger Tab. He served 6 years, got out, studied for the basics as a community college (anatomy, biology, organic Chem) and took the MCAT. He then applied to USUHS and was accepted. He because a 2ndLt but paid at O-3 level. Became a pediatrician. But, the Army saw he had that fancy tab and became the Ranger Battalion doctor. He has much less control over his career and practicing day in and day out as a pediatrician sometimes doesn’t happen. Just something to be aware of.

 

[severn]

... so this is an outside the box thinking or contrarian view.

Go to a civilian medical school. There's a major conflict looming in the horizon. The paper tiger in the South China Sea proclaimed a "rendezvous with destiny" by 2027 in Taiwan. The USN will be recruiting for your critical skills by then. When I was in junior high during the Vietnam War, my father was heavily recruited by USN as a physician to deploy in Vietnam.

 

[Kierkegaard]

... so this is an outside the box thinking or contrarian view.

Go to a civilian medical school. There's a major conflict looming in the horizon. The paper tiger in the South China Sea proclaimed a "rendezvous with destiny" by 2027 in Taiwan. The USN will be recruiting for your critical skills by then. When I was in junior high during the Vietnam War, my father was heavily recruited by USN as a physician to deploy in Vietnam.

I’m all for unorthodox strategies, but planning out the next decade of one’s education based on the assumption that a war with China will break out makes no sense. Is your idea that the Navy will be in such dire need of doctors that there will be greater benefits and recruitment bonuses by then, that the pathway will become easier somehow?

I know it’s the talk of the town how China will definitely invade Taiwan within the next 5 years, but the truth is nobody knows when or even if that’s going to happen. China has grave internal problems as it is, and it would be a huge strategic blunder for them to start a war that they’d almost certainly lose. That doesn’t mean it won’t happen, but to treat it as a given is a mistake IMO. It’s very difficult to accurately predict the future of this sort of thing. But I digress…Even if you could assume a war does break out by 2027, I don’t see that as being very applicable to the decision of attending USNA unless a candidate specifically did not want to attend as a result (in which case, they obviously should never have considered going in the first place).

 

[NavyHoops]

I’m all for unorthodox strategies, but planning out the next decade of one’s education based on the assumption that a war with China will break out makes no sense. Is your idea that the Navy will be in such dire need of doctors that there will be greater benefits and recruitment bonuses by then, that the pathway will become easier somehow?

I know it’s the talk of the town how China will definitely invade Taiwan within the next 5 years, but the truth is nobody knows when or even if that’s going to happen. China has grave internal problems as it is, and it would be a huge strategic blunder for them to start a war that they’d almost certainly lose. That doesn’t mean it won’t happen, but to treat it as a given is a mistake IMO. It’s very difficult to accurately predict the future of this sort of thing. But I digress…Even if you could assume a war does break out by 2027, I don’t see that as being very applicable to the decision of attending USNA unless a candidate specifically did not want to attend as a result (in which case, they obviously should never have considered going in the first place).

Not to mention we had a ground war in two nations for how many years and still we didn’t have a massive shortage of doctors. Hey Taiwan may or may not happen, but don’t base your life on that.

 

[severn]

I’m all for unorthodox strategies, but planning out the next decade of one’s education based on the assumption that a war with China will break out makes no sense. Is your idea that the Navy will be in such dire need of doctors that there will be greater benefits and recruitment bonuses by then, that the pathway will become easier somehow?

I know it’s the talk of the town how China will definitely invade Taiwan within the next 5 years, but the truth is nobody knows when or even if that’s going to happen. China has grave internal problems as it is, and it would be a huge strategic blunder for them to start a war that they’d almost certainly lose. That doesn’t mean it won’t happen, but to treat it as a given is a mistake IMO. It’s very difficult to accurately predict the future of this sort of thing. But I digress…Even if you could assume a war does break out by 2027, I don’t see that as being very applicable to the decision of attending USNA unless a candidate specifically did not want to attend as a result (in which case, they obviously should never have considered going in the first place).

... yes it's applicable for a civilian physician with military service aspirations. In my 30-year service, there's a military conflict every seven years as described in the news (and covert under the Global on Terrorism or GWOT). Don't know your background, for me it started with Operation Just Cause (Panama 1983), Urgent Fury (Grenada 1989), Operation Desert Storm (1991), OIF (2003-2010) and OEF (2001-2014). Also the rotational missions in the JSOA - Sulu Archipelago are active against the Abu Sayyaf. I mentioned the paper tiger because at the War College, our major war game was to defeat it, pure and simple.

 

[Kierkegaard]

... yes it's applicable for a civilian physician with military service aspirations. In my 30-year service, there's a military conflict every seven years as described in the news (and covert under the Global on Terrorism or GWOT). Don't know your background, for me it started with Operation Just Cause (Panama 1983), Urgent Fury (Grenada 1989), Operation Desert Storm (1991), OIF (2003-2010) and OEF (2001-2014). Also the rotational missions in the JSOA - Sulu Archipelago are active against the Abu Sayyaf. I mentioned the paper tiger because at the War College, our major war game was to defeat it, pure and simple.

I respect your service, and if your point was that an aspiring Navy physician should be prepared to be thrust into the midst of armed conflict, then I completely agree. I just don’t think it changes whether it’s better to go the civilian undergrad route. vs USNA before attending med school, residency, and getting to the Fleet.

 

[severn]

Not to mention we had a ground war in two nations for how many years and still we didn’t have a massive shortage of doctors. Hey Taiwan may or may not happen, but don’t base your life on that.

... false assumption---> "we didn't have a massive shortage of doctors." Have you seen the doctors shortage in Hawaii (teachers too)??

 

[Old Navy BGO]

If your BGO’s point was that your desire to be a doctor is not a good reason to pursue USNA, then wholeheartedly agree. USNA is focused on churning out unrestricted line officers (Think surface warfare officers, submariners, and pilots).

From the research I have done on options from the academy, I am also interested in surface warfare.

His view: "Do something fun for at least 5 years and then go to medical school." My USNA roommate was a Navy MD who attended USUHS.

A couple highlights here... while the mission may have changed a little over the years (we have more graduating an serving in various non-Line positions), the focus is still serving as a Line Officer. "Also interested" doesn't sound like a commitment to go to sea and be the best damn SWO you can be (or any other service assignment you may receive). USNA is not designed to be a premed school...can you get there from USNA, sure, but its a long shot. Like others that have posted above...I would not encourage any candidate to attend USNA if their end goal is to be a doctor.

That said, I also don't expect an 18 year old kid to really know what they want to do when they grow up --whether it be a career naval officer, a doctor or a lawyer. I entered USNA with the intent of being a lifer , wasn't going to get marrried until I was an LCDR, etc. Life intervened, I got married 10 days after graduation, and loved my time in the Navy, but between deployments, kids and (what I perceived to be) shrinking opportunities in the P-3 community, I left and went to law school...something I never imagined 10 years before. Similarly, I had a Company mate who got picked up for Navy Med School after a very successful first SWO tour. He was a Poli Sci major, and I never heard him mention any interest in Med School... he served 25 years as a Navy Doctor,

Bottom line, go in with expectation and desire to serve as a Line Officer...performance creates opportunities, and if the door opens for something like Medical or Legal, go for it.

 

[severn]

... another contrarian view ...
Be a "5&Dive" and take the super generous GI Bill with room and board, tuition and books covered. There's also that VA guaranteed money scholarship if your parent is a Vet. Compared to that post 70s VEAP, for every one dollar you put in, VA match it with $2, the new GI Bill is heavenly.

 

[Capt MJ]

... another contrarian view ...
Be a "5&Dive" and take the super generous GI Bill with room and board, tuition and books covered. There's also that VA guaranteed money scholarship if your parent is a Vet. Compared to that post 70s VEAP, for every one dollar you put in, VA match it with $2, the new GI Bill is heavenly.

Service Academy grads have to serve an additional 36 months past original active duty service obligation of 5 years (or whatever is required by their warfare community) to earn 100% of 9/11 GI Bill educational benefit. Less than 36 months is pro-rated %.

https://cms5.revize.com/revize/clintoncountyvsc/Post-911 GI Bill.pdf

For the OP, there are many threads on medical school out of USNA. There are also many paths to military medicine. The Navy gets the majority of its doctors from civilian undergraduate and medical schools. I like seeing a doc with her former warfare specialty on her uniform, though. There is a lot of respect for that.

Rough summary:
- USNA direct to USUHS military medical school or civilian. Narrow path and hard. Highly competitive. Must be prepared for doing regular Navy warfare specialty if not selected. Must do well on MCATs and get admitted to a med school. Years and years of active duty obligated service that starts after the residency.
- USNA or NROTC to warfare specialty, then competitively apply for lateral transfer to Medical Corps, usually in a small window of years after achieving warfare specialty qualification. No guarantees. Must be ace performer.
- USNA or NROTC to warfare specialty, serve at least 8 years to earn GI Bill. Get out, so to med school, apply to come back in Med Corps.
- Civilian undergrad and med school, using HPSP scholarship for med school. This is the usual. Or apply to USUHS med school after college. You get commissioned at start of that and are right next to the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center.

Keep in mind the military will dictate your residency based on its needs. You may indicate preferences. If your dream is orthopedic surgeon but Navy needs anaesthesiologists…

Finally, if you get into USNA, there is a lot of coaching and help for those interested. Look for info on usna.edu.

In the meantime, as noted in other posts, be sure to affirm your interest in and willingness to go to a warfare specialty. That is USNA’s mission.