Active Duty vs. Reserves and Civilian Career

[nikkuwadde]

So recently I was accepted into Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service (woohoo). I also got a four year full tuition AROTC scholarship (woohoo again). So, I'm trying to create a few 15 year plans to see my career options and such. I know for sure that I want to work in the foreign service or US Intelligence community at some point.

1) After college I go active duty and make the military my career, and be a part of army intelligence or psyops at some point.

2) I go active duty for four years to fufill my obligation (and then go reserves) and then look for a job with a government agency or State Dept, or The UN, or NATO or etc.

3) I go reserves straight outta college and look for a job at the aforementioned places.

So what do ya'll think/ which option would you pick and why?

 

[LineInTheSand]

If you have a spot at an agency, and that's your end goal, why not just skip the military thing?

 

[AJC]

you might want to consider the reserves in order to get MI.
see this thread;
https://www.serviceacademyforums.com/index.php?threads/branching-in-reserves.50417/

 

[nikkuwadde]

If you have a spot at an agency, and that's your end goal, why not just skip the military thing?

I don't have a spot. I still have to go to college. I'm just trying to figure out what I want to do. What I'm leankng towards at the moment is going. reserves and pursuing career in the Foreign Service or intel.

 

[NavyHoops]

I would go in with open ears and eyes and absorb it all. You are asking a question that only you can answer as you approach each part of life. A 15 year plan is great, but what happens when you meet your future spouse? You are now making decisions that impact 2 and maybe even more as time progresses. I have plenty of friends who work in all the aforementioned agencies. One of my closest friends just headed off to foreign lands with the state department. You are 17 maybe 18 years old. You don't have to have an answer today or even tomorrow. Go to Georgetown make friends, learn, explore, grow. You will be a different person at this time 3-4 years from now. In your senior year evaluate where you are and what you want for the next chapter in life. Go enjoy life and worry about this decision when its time.

 

[nofodad]

I can appreciate you wanting to "know" now. Go for a semester and try it all on for size, you have time before you have to decide AD or reserves. Try to enjoy college and see where it takes you. Hopefully the decision will soon be obvious, sometimes you have to live with the question.

 

[Pima]

Personally, if you were my kid and could afford to take the loans instead of the ROTC scholarship I would go that path. There is nothing in your posts that say I want to be in the Army. Sorry, but it reads more like I want to be State Dept not DoD.

I get it, college is very expensive, but what I think you don't get is the PRICE you will pay if you take that scholarship.
~ Nobody that took that scholarship in 1997 entered thinking 9/11 would occur, and many that went Reserve were called up 4 months after commissioning for very long deployments, not to say also life threatening.

You get to choose what major and which college you will attend.
~ College is 4 yrs, 30 weeks a yr., 18 hrs a week (18 credits = 18 hrs in class)

The Army will decide your career, where you will live for 4 yrs, 52 weeks, 24/7.
~ Again, what happens if the worse case scenario of another 9/11, and they say you will deploy. They say you will be Public Affairs, not Intelligence, will you regret that they OWN you?

That is the reality for the price you will pay when you activate that scholarship as a sophomore. NavyHoops is right...go in with eyes and ears open. Talk to the folks...can you only afford GTown with that AROTC scholarship? If you hate AROTC, but love the school, can you afford to stay? If not, than reevaluate your situation. To the best of my knowledge there has never been 100% commission rate for any ROTC branch.
~ Hence, the reason that freebie yr as a freshmen exists.
~ I am willing to bet that statistically the majority of kids that take the scholarship believe they will commission. They don't enter thinking I will use it for a yr and bolt because it is a freebie yr.

 

[nikkuwadde]

Personally, if you were my kid and could afford to take the loans instead of the ROTC scholarship I would go that path. There is nothing in your posts that say I want to be in the Army. Sorry, but it reads more like I want to be State Dept not DoD.

I get it, college is very expensive, but what I think you don't get is the PRICE you will pay if you take that scholarship.
~ Nobody that took that scholarship in 1997 entered thinking 9/11 would occur, and many that went Reserve were called up 4 months after commissioning for very long deployments, not to say also life threatening.

You get to choose what major and which college you will attend.
~ College is 4 yrs, 30 weeks a yr., 18 hrs a week (18 credits = 18 hrs in class)

The Army will decide your career, where you will live for 4 yrs, 52 weeks, 24/7.
~ Again, what happens if the worse case scenario of another 9/11, and they say you will deploy. They say you will be Public Affairs, not Intelligence, will you regret that they OWN you?

That is the reality for the price you will pay when you activate that scholarship as a sophomore. NavyHoops is right...go in with eyes and ears open. Talk to the folks...can you only afford GTown with that AROTC scholarship? If you hate AROTC, but love the school, can you afford to stay? If not, than reevaluate your situation. To the best of my knowledge there has never been 100% commission rate for any ROTC branch.
~ Hence, the reason that freebie yr as a freshmen exists.
~ I am willing to bet that statistically the majority of kids that take the scholarship believe they will commission. They don't enter thinking I will use it for a yr and bolt because it is a freebie yr.

Okay, so I'm really gonna evaluate during that freebie freshman year. Also, that's pretty much I could afford a school like Georgetown or any of the Ivies I got into even with generous aid options.

But luckily I got a full ride at OSU (non rotc) so I can fall back on that if I decide not to go that route. I mean, I have no problem being in the army, lots of my family is, so I've seen glimpses of the lifestyle. I'm just trying to evaluate all the courses of action I could take.

I get there are implict costs that goes along with the ROTC scholarship. I'm just trying to weigh them against the explicit cost of taking out loans and debt.

 

[cb7893]

I don't have a spot. I still have to go to college. I'm just trying to figure out what I want to do.

Congratulations on your acceptance to GU and receiving the AROTC scholarship. That is certainly something to be proud of and it entitles you to nothing more than a free prestigious education and a commitment to military service thereafter, provided you don't do anything stupid.

You are wasting your time trying to plan for 15 years hence. The world will change. You will change. Most important you will begin to learn what you don't know as well as what you don't care to know.

Instead, I would recommend you be more of a sponge. At GU, particularly at the School of Foreign Service, you will cross paths with people who done or are doing all of the various things you dream of. You may find things that appeal to you as well as things that don't. You are obviously, doing some dreaming. That is a good thing. You will be in the perfect spot to discover in what direction you hope to go.

I was once in your shoes.

I headed off to George Washington University in 1974, hellbent on a foreign service career. My area of specialization was the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. What could possibly be more exciting during the Cold War. I had professors who lived the experiences I read about. Classmates from the NSA, CIA, DOD. I studied Russian and German. Read Marx and Lenin. I met people in all sorts of careers. I was preparing for my own career and really enjoying everything I was studying.

At the end of the day, I discovered that I had no interest whatsoever in working for the government. I did not want to enter the insular world of the CIA or NSA. Besides, that work was boring. It was not Jason Bourne. Based on what I inferred from the Foreign Service Officers I met, the Foreign Service was just another job: writing cables, processing visa applications, escorting US dignitaries, etc. One's language or regional studies skillset meant nothing in one's postings. As Pima said, the Military is no better in that regard.

All prospects of such employment were later precluded by marrying a girl from a Soviet Bloc country, whose Father was a member of the Communist Party.

The ironic thing is that the Soviet Bloc was built on a house of cards and the USSR completely imploded. If the CIA saw it coming it was their best kept secret. Imagine spending years of your life analyzing Pravda and Izvestia and listening to Warsaw Pact tank drivers, only to see the whole enterprise collapse all by itself.

Now, 38 years later, that country is now in NATO and my Father-in-law couldn't be more proud of his grandson who is a 2Lt in the US Army deployed in the ME. You just never know what lies around the corner.

Best of luck! You got the Golden Ticket. Make the most of it.

 

[EDelahanty]

At the end of the day, I discovered that I had no interest whatsoever in working for the government. I did not want to enter the insular world of the CIA or NSA. Besides, that work was boring. It was not Jason Bourne. Based on what I inferred from the Foreign Service Officers I met, the Foreign Service was just another job: writing cables, processing visa applications, escorting US dignitaries, etc.

All prospects of such employment were later precluded by marrying a girl from a Soviet Bloc country, whose Father was a member of the Communist Party.

Donald Trump didn't let a little thing like that stop him.

 

[JustABill1775]

Sure you may have gotten in and gotten a scholarship. Yet the real challenge is actually maintaing the GPA and PT scores. Sure everyone wants to be a super smart scientist making lots of money or some cool military intelligence officer in the army , yet not everyone can find the motivation to keep going. I say go for your dreams. No one said it would be easy. Expect it to be hard, keep pushing and be thankful you got that scholarship and make the most of it. There's alot of other people that wish they were where you are at. High School is easy to get good grades and scholarships, college might or might not be

 

[eljay60]

So, I'm trying to create a few 15 year plans to see my career options and such.

First off, kudos to you for planning. As has been pointed out to you above (and as I'm sure you know), 'tis many a slip twixt the cup and the lip, and the best laid plans of mice and men oft go astray, and man makes plans so God can chuckle and all that...

But, study after study has shown that people with clear goals tend to reach them. Do you want to do 'more' crunches, or 80 in two minutes? Defining what you want (money? family? prestige? power? ) clarifies what your actions should be.

So all that being said, those of us on the far side of 50 recognize that things we thought would change didn't, and change we didn't expect came crashing through the window. So basically, do a self-evaluation - and keep in mind that even if you do an entire 20 year career in the military, you are still only 42 with a whole 'nother career coming up after that.

Things to think about: Family plans - not just spouse and kids for you (someday), but how important is your extended family in your plans? How comfortable are you with risk taking? Do you plan to extend your formal education? To what extent? How much does it bother you to (think you) know more than the person in charge, and does that interfere with your ability to complete the task at hand? How patient are you (keeping in mind that 'Hurry up and wait' is a mantra in every branch of the military)?

I will give you this much advice: the older you get, the faster time passes. A four or eight year obligation doesn't seem like much at all from my vantage point, and a guaranteed job at the conclusion of your bachelor's frees you up to concentrate on getting everything out of your time at college. I would assume time in the military is going to look good on any resume for the Foreign Service or Intelligence community.

I also assume this is more of a thought exercise for you - so enjoy the daydreaming, make a file on your laptop with various scenarios outlined, and look in on it every 6 months while you are in school to update the options. Good luck!

 

[LineInTheSand]

I haven't said this yet, but I think you're going to a great school for your goals.

 

[nikkuwadde]

Thanks for the advice ya'll I recently found I was accepted into the University of Chicago in additon to Georgetown (but Gtown is still my#1). The only schools that would make me reconsider GTown is Harvard/Princeton (if admitted).

But, ya'll are right. I suppose having some career outlines is a good thing, but plans will change, and I hadn't really planned for the other people in my life. So I'll just see where all this takes me, and appreciate that I'm in a very good spot right now, and there are lots of possible paths I can take. (Also, I just got an internship at the U.N.)

 

[AROTC-dad]

It is always nice to have options. Congratulations on the acceptances.
Take it one step at a time, and don't underestimate how much time and energy AROTC will require.

 

[cb7893]

The only schools that would make me reconsider GTown is Harvard/Princeton (if admitted).

At Harvard and Princeton, you will be in the same zip code as a number of well-known, former high level, former political appointees who now have overpaid positions at your Princeton/Harvard. They will occasionally deliver a lecture and appear in the promotional literature, but will be mostly inaccessible to undergraduates.

At GU, you will be surrounded by Professors and fellow students who were/are actively in the game that you wish to be a part of. A DoD, CIA, NSA employee working on a masters or Phd is not going to commute to Princeton or Cambridge for their seminars. At GW we were allowed to attend/audit graduate level seminars/colloquia which had more foreign diplomats and US gov't employees (many in unform) than students. GU is a 20 minute drive for these guys.

I'll give you one example of my personal experience, though I could give you more. First semester Senior year I knew only one thing. I did not want to go immediately to grad school or look for serious longterm employment. Having spent almost four years doing the area study and learning the languages, I wanted to spent a year in a Soviet Bloc country, which was very difficult at that time. The opportunities were very limited and not appealing. They tended to isolate the Western students from the locals and other students from communist countries.

I was discussing all this one day with the Polish teacher at GW. She asked me if I'd thought about Poland, which I hadn't. I assumed that being tucked in between the three most repressive Soviet Bloc countries, that its restrictions would be overly onerous. She gave the desk phone number of the Polish Consul General in DC. When I called, I got him, not a switchboard. He invited me over, offered me a beer and within two weeks I was set up for a school year at the Jagiellonian University in Krakow, in a language program which would qualify me to attend a Polish University. The whole thing cost me $750. I received a $15/mo. stipend and my meal ticket cost me 22 cts./wk. I lived in a dorm that was thoroughly mixed between Westerners, Poles and other Eastern Bloc students. My roommate was Polish and spoke no English at the time. He ended up as best man at my wedding.

When I returned to the US I went to work for a multi-national grain company who was one of the largest sellers of grain to the USSR and Eastern Europe, back when they used to import grain. My calling card was my experience of living, not visiting, behind the Iron Curtain.

If you want to meet people who are doing what you think you want to be doing 15 years from now, Georgetown is the place.

 

[nofodad]

DS didn't have the choices you're looking at, it came down to Holy Cross and trying to earn an NROTC scholarship as a college programmer and making an IR degree on his own (HC didn't offer it), or AU and a nationally ranked IR program (GU, GW, AU). Fortunately he chose the school with the best program for his major and not the branch that he wanted. First week of classes he was at the Russian embassy for a program led by one of his professors. He wouldn't have gotten that in Worcester. For what you think you want to do GU is where it's at.

 

[Pima]

nofodad,
No offense I disagree with you for one reason.

The OP has stated they cannot afford these schools without the scholarship. In their case it is AROTC.

I hope for the best and that he enjoys ROTC, but what if he doesn't? That leaves him with 1 of 2 choices.
~ Leave the school because they can't afford it or go into 100 K debt for the education.
~ Stay and go deeper into debt with no true job offer on the table for 3 yrs from now.

I agree that that they offer an amazing experience, but with no grad degree, even with a GTown degree he is going to be up against stiff competition. Princeton, Harvard, Yale, STanford, Penn, Brown, Bucknell, etc. and let's throw in schools like American, GW, UMDCP that all have students interning at the Hill due to their proximity to DC.
~ You can't spit 6-9 inches without hitting a Govt/Politics, International Relations, etc. student at any of these colleges in the DC area. They are not unique. Granted he was accepted into their specialty school, but still there will be specialty schools all around.

I come from the Princeton area. I can tell you that if they do ROTC and try to intern at the UN as a student it is going to be insanely hard and costly. Princeton to NYC is on a good day a 45 min. commute. They will have to train it or bus it in, drive it in and you have to pay the tolls on TPKE and the GW bridge or the tunnels. Now add in the fact that they probably will do ROTC at Rutgers, which is xtown, it becomes even more difficult from an academic aspect. Rutgers with no traffic is 25 mins. If PT is 6:30, that means they will need to be up at 5:30 a.m. and will not be able to get back to Princeton for an 8 a.m. class. In essence, it can become a scheduling nightmare when juggling academics, ROTC and an internship. Something will have to give and usually it is the grades, which in turn impacts everything.

I just believe that the OP has to really think about more than college opportunities, like an internship, as a ROTC cadet when they say I can't afford to attend even with a generous FA package without the ROTC scholarship.
~ Kids bond that freshmen year. If they can't afford it without that scholarship, imagine how hard it will be for them next year when they have to decide do I stay in ROTC to pay for my college even though I hate it, or do I leave my college, my friends because I can't afford to stay?
~ It is not a question that many want to address, but it needs to be. My DS was fortunate, he loved his college, his ROTC det., and even if he dropped AFROTC he could afford to stay. However, he did see many leave. We all have seen it on this forum.

 

[LineInTheSand]

I don't agree Pima. The schools listed (Georgetown, George Washington, and American) are uniquely located and better positioned for setting people up for a foreign-relations based career.

The departments and agencies he's interested in are in DC.

That said, I think a few years in the military might be frustrating. Of course, maybe he'll enjoy it, and he will get extra points for veterans preference.

 

[informe]

@nikkuwadde

Congratulations. Your acceptances [NROTC, GU, UC] all point to one thing, you are smart. Your post also indicates you need money to finish college [with out loans]. It appears [I may be wrong] that you are thinking NROTC may be a way to pay for college.

My suggestion/thoughts: Unless you are truly a military person [it takes a different mindset to be one] do not go NROTC you will feel suffocated and restricted by the military dictate.

Even if you have to take the loans to go to GU or UC or hopefully Harvard/Princeton when you come out as a civilian you will make more money than most other grads and will be able to pay it off faster. More importantly you have the freedom to change career paths and better yourself [which a student of your caliber is capable of doing].

If you were truly a military buff you would have applied to the service academies and very likely you would have gotten in those, the fact that you did not apply [don't know for sure] tells me you are less inclined towards a military career.

In any case don't let money be the deciding factor you may not like yourself later in life.

Good luck.