Fraternization Policy?

Discussion in 'Life After the Academy' started by blankpage33, Jul 17, 2018.

  1. blankpage33

    blankpage33 New Member

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    Im hoping there are some of you who know the answer to this. I am enlisted in the Air Force and have been in for a long time. I met a navy officer online and we’ve been seeing each other for awhile - they knew my rank from the get go and we continued a relationship despite knowing it probably wasn’t ok. Since this was not a pre-existing relationship and both of us were already at ranks prohibited to date when we met, is this a complete no-no? And what could happen if someone finds out? Thanks in advance
     
  2. Tex232

    Tex232 Member

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    Is it a no-no? Yes, it is. Will action be taken against you against either of you for it? Maybe. The UCMJ is pretty clear about enlisted-officer relationships, and it is a court martialable offense. I would say that if both of you were in the same service, it would be a definite no-go. However since you are in separate services, it may be doable if you kept it on the down low and you didn’t get married while you were both in the service. But again, it’s definitely not something I’d advertise if you decided to continue on in the relationship.
     
  3. THParent

    THParent Member

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    How could you be in the Air Force "for a long time" and not know this?
     
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  4. blankpage33

    blankpage33 New Member

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    I was wondering because we’re in different branches. I don’t have any personal experience so I was seeing if someone else did
     
  5. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt 5-Year Member

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    OP: You both know it is prohibited. Your post sounds like a high school kid trying to justify something you know is wrong. Your questions and your behavior don't signal maturity or good judgement. What could happen? More than likely, the Officer will bear the brunt of the punishment (and should). Stepping off my soapbox and out of this discussion.
     
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  6. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    To me the question is how could he be in the Navy as an officer and not know this?

    Think about it. The officer should know this answer and knew it before the relationship ever started.

    Do I know enlisted members that married officers? You betcha! However, they never went public until after the enlisted person left the military. It was always the aha moment when within months of dating they were living together and engaged and the engagement was a few short months, but the wedding was huge! IOWS, the day they went public the wedding date was set because they had been dating on the sly for a long time and now they were going to pretend it was love at 1st sight and couldn't wait to make it official.
     
  7. Tex232

    Tex232 Member

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    As rare as it sounds, I’ve even met officers and enlisted that were married while both were still serving.
     
  8. raimius

    raimius 10-Year Member

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    Same.
    Some escaped relatively unscathed, and others effectively terminated any chance for future promotion...which is definitely better than an immediate courts martial...but still...

    Fraternization isn't recommended...
     
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  9. Wild Blue Yonder

    Wild Blue Yonder 5-Year Member

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    So... still lurking here on occasion but I haven't posted for awhile, but this thread caught my attention.
    I am a civilian so please forgive my ignorance. But WHY is this so forbidden in the military?

    Especially if each party is in a different branch? Even if they are in the same branch but in a different chain of command? Yeah, decision making...

    Hell, a retired O-4 and E-9 couple wrote one of my DS's recommendation letters to the Academy 10 years ago.

    Seems a change in policy needs to happen sooner than later. (Tattoos, piercings, SSM...)

    I'm ready for the military community to correct me... Thanks
     
  10. Wishful

    Wishful "Land of the free, because of the brave..." 5-Year Member

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    Oh, same sex marriage.
     
  11. LurkingQuietly

    LurkingQuietly Member

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    Bureaucracies pick and choose what administrative rules they'd like to enforce. Lately in the news we've seen how bureaucracies pick and choose what actual crimes they would like to enforce.

    Here is a fraternization situation I asked my daughter about.
    Coast guard cutter, has 50 aboard. 3 are single females, one of those is an ensign. Do you allow those 3 females to fraternize? Or do you isolate that female ensign and only allow her to fraternize with the male officers?
     
  12. conrack

    conrack Member

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    Understandably the biggest concern would be the possibility of a couple being in the same chain of command and creating a conflict of interest; I once served in a reserve unit where the commanders brother was a member and he was forced to transfer to preclude any appearance of impropriety. Given the decline in morals and the fact that transgenders and openly gay members can serve you wonder why there is still a hangup about dating or marriage between officer and enlisted as long as there is no potential problems.
     
  13. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    Serving as a transgender or gay person has nothing to do with fraternization. As long as rules and norms are followed it also has nothing to do with good order and discipline. Purposely inflammatory posts are not welcome here. Let's keep comments strictly on topic. I hope this warning is sufficient.
     
  14. conrack

    conrack Member

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    not intended to be inflammatory, I believe the reference in regards to morals and standards is fair and appropriate.
     
  15. hornetguy

    hornetguy 10-Year Member

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    It's inflammatory and ridiculous. And it's neither fair nor appropriate.
     
  16. LurkingQuietly

    LurkingQuietly Member

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    I'd like to also quote Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart Jacobellis v. Ohio ..... "I know it when I see it".
     
  17. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    Enjoying :popcorn1: for a few more minutes/posts until I see this getting locked.
     
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  18. AROTC-dad

    AROTC-dad Moderator

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    Again, to reinforce @kinnem's comment above, this thread is intended to discuss fraternization.

    Let's stay on track, please.
     
  19. LurkingQuietly

    LurkingQuietly Member

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    The original question was asking why officers and enlisted are not allowed to marry...(bar not in the same chain of command). This was a valid question, and deserves an intelligent answer. The only responses were, "its against UCMJ", "How could you not know", "sounds like a high school kid"...etc. I don't see where someone tried to answer it. The way I read Conrack's point was maybe it is a outdated rule, and needs to be looked at just like we did with gay/transgender. Additionally I do believe this type of relationship is NOT against UCMJ if they were married/dated before commissioning/enlisting???? (I could be wrong) The ability to express our opinion and speak freely is essential to bring about change.

    I personally think Kinnem read this the wrong way. Don't understand the public keel-hauling.
     
  20. Humey

    Humey Member

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    Its actually a funny thought how only officers can marry officers and enlisted can only marry enlisted. Does that mean that officers give birth to baby officers? I get you you would never want one partner to be under the chain of command of the other, but how could it be a problem if they were in different branches. Not saying I even disagree with the fraternization policy, but honestly, it almost seems elitist in the sense that officers shouldnt mix with the enlisted.
     
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