Word of advice--hit the dog, squirrel, cat or whatever, period end of sentence. Only swerve to avoid a person or another car. They don't teach that in driver's ed.
Sorry, I know its off topic.
Last edited:
Will underage drinking come back to bite me?
- Thread starter anonymous
- Start date
Word of advice--hit the dog, squirrel, cat or whatever, period end of sentence. Only swerve to avoid a person or another car. They don't teach that in driver's ed.
Sorry, I know its off topic.
-Bull-
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2009
- Messages
- 1,431
Bull: bringing someone's wife and children into a forum disagreement is worse than childish. Try not to reflect too badly on the Army's selection process.
When you act like a 2 year old in a simple discussion, I'll give you what you pay for. Statement still stands.
Difficult, but ultimately correct advice nonetheless.
It is never good when you let someone get under your skin.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2008
- Messages
- 6,193
Basically what he was saying was that "if it was reported to a hospital, law enforcement, etc., then the cadet will be ID'd as both a student at the U and an ROTC cadet...and word would get back."
He seemed VERY confident in that so I have to believe it's happened before.
Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
I was taught not to swerve in Driver's ed...
Thanks for the clarification, so from what PAS said then it really doesn't matter much if he self reports or not since it sounds like it will most likely get back to the Det. anyway. Report now and face almost certain dis-enrollment, or keep it to himself at least have a chance, however slim.
I guess the only thing that the OP would risk if he decides not to say anything now is whether or not he is on scholarship and the re-payment could be higher if he continues on with nothing said.
Either way I would not want to be in shoes.
Thanks again for the information, and I agree, it's probably happened before.
Not sure about that. Would OP be required to report any other temporary, exogenously caused condition such as heat stroke from a hike in the desert with insufficient hydration, hypothermia while camping with insufficient insulation, or food poisoning? What about a severe flu that causes OP to miss three days of school? Or "red eye" = conjunctivitis? Seems to me temporary illnesses or conditions are not what DODMERB is looking for.
Bullet
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2008
- Messages
- 986
Well, Grand Theft Auto III taught me to swerve into EVERYTHING. Mailboxes, squirrels, light post, pedestrians, etc....
Besides, I have those cat like reflexes, and the driving skills of James Bond. If I wanted to (a big "IF") I could swerve to miss both the dog / squirrel / cat / grandmother and the other car, without spilling a drop of my "shaken, not stirred, martini. (or messing my wind-swept hair)
There are some temporary illnesses/conditions that DoDMERB does require updates on.
I will clarify what I mentioned a few pages back...
On the DoDMERB form, Question 7 asks
"Have you ever or do you now use any of the following"
It goes on to list several intoxicants, without any clarification, but when it asks about Alcohol it adds:
"Amount, Frequency, Treatment, if any"
I would say that if he received "treatment" for his alcohol poisoning in the ER, checking yes in question 7 and detailing the incident in question 83 (required for all answers of yes in question 7) would require self-incrimination.
http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/infomgt/forms/eforms/dd2492.pdf
Pima
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 13,900
The OP wants to go rated, if selected he will be sent to Wright Pat AFB for a 3 day physical, this is part DoDMERB exit ROTC exam and part FAA exam.
He will be required to submit any dates hospitalized and the medical reason why.
This is where the problem lies. While he is at WPAFB he would have already applied for a TS clearance. One question is do you drink alcohol? It goes deeper, but you get the drift.
If he acknowledges it on his TS clearance, but hides it on his rated exam, he can find it to bite him.
He is also going to have to choose wisely for his TS refs that they don't know of it, to keep this going, or ask them to lie to an agent. Has he ever had an alcohol issue? That was asked directly to me when I met with an agent. I could say no knowing I answered truthfully. As I said earlier Bullet is going forward with his 5th TS which is basically a cake walk, but they still interview people...my Mother and both of our friends called to say they met up with the agents (NJ, NC, and VA; different agents).
This is a guy that currently has a TS clearance and has had one since 1988.
I took a lot of heat for my position, but I read flieger's response like Jcleppe.
In the end it will come to light while he is in AFROTC, his decision now is how much scholarship money he wants to re-pay back.
I would have stepped back and ate every ounce of crow every poster could feed me if flieger did not say
He was admitted to a hospital.
The rated slots came out last week, according to his post he didn't get one or was up for one, so that means he is a freshmen or a sophomore. SFT results are expected in the next week or two, and he made no mention of the impact of SFT. That leaves me at 100.
100's are young and stupid. It is their 1st time testing the waters. He made a foolish mistake, but following what flieger stated he has 3 yrs of looking over his shoulder, hoping the cadre never finds out.
Following my position/defense...there is no 100% SFT selection, and he has to hope that a cadet not selected for SFT next yr won't fink him out when they are dis-enrolled. Hope if he is a 200 they won't fink him out now.
If flieger's contact is right they will find out one way or another, so now the question is: Does he approach them 1st, or wait until they approach?
Neither is good, and I am sure his grades are suffering from the stress. That will impact him later on too.
I am sorry for some that my moral compass is not in sync with theirs. I only stated, this is me. I stated do what is good for you, the OP. I did not say you MUST do this. It was my opinion.
It is still my opinion, knowing what my DS went through starting in 2010 (SFT), and how it is just going to amp up trying to hide that hospitalization in ways the OP didn't imagine? He is going to have a PT job just making sure it doesn't come back to bite him. Not just now, but as a pilot it is 10 yrs commitment, plus it will be done before commissioning, and UPT is 1 yr. You will repeat this process again 2X....assume 2017 grad, get UPT....2016, 2021, and 2026 before his pilot commitment is over.
His choice, his decision, but I am with Jcleppe's post.
He will be required to submit any dates hospitalized and the medical reason why.
This is where the problem lies. While he is at WPAFB he would have already applied for a TS clearance. One question is do you drink alcohol? It goes deeper, but you get the drift.
If he acknowledges it on his TS clearance, but hides it on his rated exam, he can find it to bite him.
He is also going to have to choose wisely for his TS refs that they don't know of it, to keep this going, or ask them to lie to an agent. Has he ever had an alcohol issue? That was asked directly to me when I met with an agent. I could say no knowing I answered truthfully. As I said earlier Bullet is going forward with his 5th TS which is basically a cake walk, but they still interview people...my Mother and both of our friends called to say they met up with the agents (NJ, NC, and VA; different agents).
This is a guy that currently has a TS clearance and has had one since 1988.
I took a lot of heat for my position, but I read flieger's response like Jcleppe.
In the end it will come to light while he is in AFROTC, his decision now is how much scholarship money he wants to re-pay back.
I would have stepped back and ate every ounce of crow every poster could feed me if flieger did not say
flieger said:
flieger said:
He was admitted to a hospital.
The rated slots came out last week, according to his post he didn't get one or was up for one, so that means he is a freshmen or a sophomore. SFT results are expected in the next week or two, and he made no mention of the impact of SFT. That leaves me at 100.
100's are young and stupid. It is their 1st time testing the waters. He made a foolish mistake, but following what flieger stated he has 3 yrs of looking over his shoulder, hoping the cadre never finds out.
Following my position/defense...there is no 100% SFT selection, and he has to hope that a cadet not selected for SFT next yr won't fink him out when they are dis-enrolled. Hope if he is a 200 they won't fink him out now.
If flieger's contact is right they will find out one way or another, so now the question is: Does he approach them 1st, or wait until they approach?
Neither is good, and I am sure his grades are suffering from the stress. That will impact him later on too.
I am sorry for some that my moral compass is not in sync with theirs. I only stated, this is me. I stated do what is good for you, the OP. I did not say you MUST do this. It was my opinion.
It is still my opinion, knowing what my DS went through starting in 2010 (SFT), and how it is just going to amp up trying to hide that hospitalization in ways the OP didn't imagine? He is going to have a PT job just making sure it doesn't come back to bite him. Not just now, but as a pilot it is 10 yrs commitment, plus it will be done before commissioning, and UPT is 1 yr. You will repeat this process again 2X....assume 2017 grad, get UPT....2016, 2021, and 2026 before his pilot commitment is over.
His choice, his decision, but I am with Jcleppe's post.
Jcleppe said:
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2012
- Messages
- 549
I'm not so sure about that. The contract I signed (AFROTC) said that we were obligated to report ANY changes in our medical history. This was heavily emphasized by the officer and NCO overseeing our contracting. I believe the passage said hiding changes in medical history is grounds for dis-enrollment, if it did not, it was certainly implied by the cadre. Obviously, that excludes small things like a cold or the flu, but temporary unconsciousness certainly qualifies. I fainted a few years ago, it was a one time thing where I hadn't eaten in about a day, was dehydrated, and put in a very stressful situation. Went to my physician a few days later and they said it was completely benign, not caused by any condition, but I still had to report it to DoDMERB as a part of my medical history.
Surely, drinking so much that you pass out and have to be taken to the emergency room would also warrant a 'change in medical history'...?
If he has followed some of the other advice on the forum and selected a school he could afford without the scholarship this may not be a killer but a definitely unpleasant development. This also assumes he would be going to college even if he wasn't in AFROTC.
No I wouldn't want to be in his shoes but making mistakes is how we learn and we also learn that there are consequences for making mistakes. In some cases the consequences can be so severe they negate the positive of learning.
Great points
DeskJockey
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2009
- Messages
- 78
This is a complicated situation with potentially profound consequences. As much as I enjoy the practical, philosophical and legal discussion that this question has provoked, I am also quite sure that it is not a substitute for an authoritative interpretation of the rules.
Ideally, this cadet would have a good enough relationship with his detachment commander that he could discuss his situation in hypothetical terms so that he can know where he stands without placing himself and the commander in an irreversible situation. If that isn't possible, then he should anonymously seek clarification from the relevant AFROTC HQ personnel. I don't think that anyone would hold it against him if he tries to find out what his rights and responsibilities definitively are before deciding what to do. As sincerely helpful as the people on this forum are, we are not in a position to do that for him, and I would encourage this cadet - and any other cadet facing a similar dilemna - to get an OFFICIAL clarification of what they are supposed to do.
Ideally, this cadet would have a good enough relationship with his detachment commander that he could discuss his situation in hypothetical terms so that he can know where he stands without placing himself and the commander in an irreversible situation. If that isn't possible, then he should anonymously seek clarification from the relevant AFROTC HQ personnel. I don't think that anyone would hold it against him if he tries to find out what his rights and responsibilities definitively are before deciding what to do. As sincerely helpful as the people on this forum are, we are not in a position to do that for him, and I would encourage this cadet - and any other cadet facing a similar dilemna - to get an OFFICIAL clarification of what they are supposed to do.
Does a cadet fill out this form 2492 again for the physical given pre-commissioning as an MSIV?
I know my MSIII daughter is going through DoDMERB paperwork right now as the exam she took 2 years ago when awarded her scholarship is expiring (only good for 2 years). I'm pretty sure the form would still be the same, although I haven't asked her.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2012
- Messages
- 549
This form looks similar to something I filled out for AFROTC. If the information on there has changed since the last time you filled it out, like say you previously said you didn't drink but since your last DoDMERB physical you've become of legal age and started having a drink now and then, that would have to be corrected. It's not the type of thing you fill out once and your good to go as long as everything on it was true at the time. So technically, you are supposed to reported. You tell DoDMERB, they tell the cadre member at your school that deals with that sort of stuff. It then becomes a question not of if you're legally obligated to disclose it, because you are, if not as a civic involvement, then as a change in medical history, but of how likely it is they will find out if you don't. Something like a drink or two every 2 months or so by yourself is likely to go unnoticed, but one would think that a trip to the emergency room would be pretty easy to trace when he's getting his security clearance. Isn't everything updated electronically now?
Ohio2015Parent
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2010
- Messages
- 1,122
Slightly off topic, but something I think that needs to be said. IF you are ever in the situation where a fellow cadet is in medical distress from consuming too much alcohol or other substance -- please DO NOT avoid medical attention trying to save your buddy's scholarship/ROTC standing. I'm afraid some lurker is thinking "if his friends hadn't taken him to the hospital" or something to that point. I'm including the following info. in case some kiddo finds this on a google of ROTC and alcohol poisioning on a Saturday night at X University. OP might be in a bad place with AFROTC, but at least he/she is alive to face it.
from Mayoclinic.com
Alcohol poisoning symptoms include:
Confusion, stupor
Vomiting
Seizures
Slow breathing (less than eight breaths a minute)
Irregular breathing (a gap of more than 10 seconds between breaths)
Blue-tinged skin or pale skin
Low body temperature (hypothermia)
Unconsciousness ("passing out"), and can't be roused
It's not necessary for all of these symptoms to be present before you seek help. A person who is unconscious or can't be roused is at risk of dying.
When to see a doctor
If you suspect that someone has alcohol poisoning — even if you don't see the classic signs and symptoms — seek immediate medical care. In an emergency, follow these suggestions:
If the person is unconscious, breathing less than eight times a minute or has repeated, uncontrolled vomiting, call 911 or your local emergency number immediately. Keep in mind that even when someone is unconscious or has stopped drinking, alcohol continues to be released into the bloodstream and the level of alcohol in the body continues to rise. Never assume that a person will "sleep off" alcohol poisoning.
If the person is conscious, call 800-222-1222 (in the U.S.), and you'll automatically be routed to your local poison control center. The staff at the poison control center or emergency call center can instruct you as to whether you should take the person directly to a hospital. All calls to poison control centers are confidential.
from Mayoclinic.com
Alcohol poisoning symptoms include:
Confusion, stupor
Vomiting
Seizures
Slow breathing (less than eight breaths a minute)
Irregular breathing (a gap of more than 10 seconds between breaths)
Blue-tinged skin or pale skin
Low body temperature (hypothermia)
Unconsciousness ("passing out"), and can't be roused
It's not necessary for all of these symptoms to be present before you seek help. A person who is unconscious or can't be roused is at risk of dying.
When to see a doctor
If you suspect that someone has alcohol poisoning — even if you don't see the classic signs and symptoms — seek immediate medical care. In an emergency, follow these suggestions:
If the person is unconscious, breathing less than eight times a minute or has repeated, uncontrolled vomiting, call 911 or your local emergency number immediately. Keep in mind that even when someone is unconscious or has stopped drinking, alcohol continues to be released into the bloodstream and the level of alcohol in the body continues to rise. Never assume that a person will "sleep off" alcohol poisoning.
If the person is conscious, call 800-222-1222 (in the U.S.), and you'll automatically be routed to your local poison control center. The staff at the poison control center or emergency call center can instruct you as to whether you should take the person directly to a hospital. All calls to poison control centers are confidential.