afrotc2022

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Jul 5, 2017
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Has anyone out there in the forum ever tried to switch from tech to non-tech on an AFROTC scholarship? I'm considering asking to switch and would like to hear from some people with some first-hand experience on what I should/shouldn't do when it comes to how I present the idea to Cadre and how they present it to HQ.

Thanks.
 

Tbpxece

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Nov 13, 2018
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I have plenty of second-hand experience (people I personally know) that attempted that and were unsuccessful. Most were fortunate enough to get out of their contract their freshman year or prior to contracting their 3-year. Some pushed on through.

Always worth a try, though. Build a compelling case, and it can't be "Classes are too hard, don't like my major".

If your grades are good, and this is more for your personal benefit, then look into other options like a minor and applying for some non-AFROTC scholarships to cover the cost of the additional fees/tuition hikes.
 

afrotc2022

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I have plenty of second-hand experience (people I personally know) that attempted that and were unsuccessful. Most were fortunate enough to get out of their contract their freshman year or prior to contracting their 3-year. Some pushed on through.

Always worth a try, though. Build a compelling case, and it can't be "Classes are too hard, don't like my major".

If your grades are good, and this is more for your personal benefit, then look into other options like a minor and applying for some non-AFROTC scholarships to cover the cost of the additional fees/tuition hikes.

What are some examples of a compelling case? Of course I'd have to have my own argument, but are there any examples? Thanks.
 

Tbpxece

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What are some examples of a compelling case? Of course I'd have to have my own argument, but are there any examples? Thanks.

You are asking the AF to spend their money on you while you back out of your previous agreement. Think of it that way. They hired you to get a degree in XXX, and now you are saying, "No, no, I want to do YYY after spending years of your money training me to do XXX"

It will have to be a degree in something that benefits them, and in an undeniable way. Stay away from the "I just feel that"-type of argument and stick to a solid persuasive argument. Keep in mind that their overwhelmingly initial reaction will be to say "No, but we'll still let you commission with your degree in YYY, just find someone else to pay for it."

A persuasive argument compelling enough to sway the opinion of a partner hostile to the idea. That's what I mean by a "compelling case".

Once you have that narrative built, then talk to your cadre and have them vet it. Do not go to them with a vague, ill-considered proposal. Build a solid case first. Do your research.

If you are trying to switch to a common major (business, international relations, communications, history, English, etc.), I would not count on anything. They get all those degrees already through OTS.
 

Pima

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Nov 28, 2007
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afrotc22,

You really should talk to your PMS for guidance. You are not the 1st tech scholarship cadet that has tried to switch to non-tech, nor will you be the last. Your det will be able to tell you why they failed to gain permission, and IF any that did get the permission they will know why also.

Personally, as I said on your other thread.
https://www.serviceacademyforums.co...tech-to-non-tech-on-afrotc-scholarship.65874/ Your chances are slim to nil, just like your det told you when you approached them earlier.
There has been nobody here on this forum that I have ever seen given that ability to switch. @Tbpxece has also reiterated from 2nd hand experience he knows nobody that was approved for the switch. Hence, I doubt you will get many replies from 1st hand experience to tell you what you should or shouldn't do. Those posters either decided to stick it out with their tech major or leave AFROTC.

I will add that you should talk to your academic advisor at your university. Switching from one major to another may delay your graduation date. It will not help your case if the university says your new intended major will delay your graduation by a semester or you will need to take summer courses (your dime) to graduate by May 2022.
~A Dec graduation would not be FY2022, but FY2023. HQ AFROTC has you on the books right now for FY22.

You also have stated you want to be a pilot and your current gpa is @3.3/3.4 as a tech major.
1. Hard to build a case when the avg gpa for a tech major regarding SFT and pilot is 3.0/3.1
~ Obviously you can successfully handle the course material, and now you are saying to them my needs matter more than the AF
2. Think long term.
~Tech/rated for SFT gets the biggest edge when it comes to selection. You need SFT to commission
~~ Your other posts have stated that as of right now they are opposed to you even submitting the paperwork from a visual aspect for your cadet career. This begs the question that if they deny your request, how will this impact your rack and stack from the CoC for SFT? Will they slip you down a slot compared to another cadet that has a 3.1 compared to your higher cgpa, but has barreled down and moved on bc for that cadet, they are placing AFROTC above their own wants. I am not saying that is how the cadre will view it, but as someone that is management, I place that in my decision too. Believe it or not the AF is a business, and the leadership will always place AF 1st when they make decisions.
~ Same can be said for rated selection. My DS was a non-tech scholarship recipient. He got UPT, but again tech gets the edge. He had the same gpa as you as a non-tech. However, he also had flight hrs too. He was just short of his PPL, solo'd prior to leaving for college. His Xmas, Bday gifts were flight hrs. He had just under 100 when he went for the rated board. IMPO those flight hrs were the reason he got pilot as a non-tech. Do you have flight hrs? Non-tech, no flight hrs and you are leaving points on the table for UPT selection.

My suggestion is you need to get on this now. If your school yr ends in May, than within a few short weeks you will be registering for your fall semester classes. How can you register for the new major classes without knowing the answer from HQ AFROTC? You stated you need this scholarship to attend the school. If that is the case, than you will need the answer ASAP regarding their decision.
~ Think about it. A new major means new pre-req classes that you might have yet to take. They will fill up when the class of 2023 arrives during the summer for orientation as you await HQ's answer. If it goes your way and the decision comes down 2 weeks prior to the start of the school yr than you may find issues regarding your fall semester class schedule, in turn see above with graduating on time.

I do wish you the best, but with everything you have posted I cannot see any case you can build that will satisfy HQ AFROTC when it comes to allowing you to switch to non-tech. Your uphill battle is your cgpa as I have stated multiple times, HQ AFROTC will see it as my wants, my needs, my desires, because to them you are not failing anything. Your cgpa is higher than the avg tech major.
 
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Pima

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OBTW, I would also point out that you have thought about going into a foreign language major. Beware of doing this, again from a long term aspect. Your AFSC desire is pilot. HQ ADAF may deem that specific foreign language you intend to major in as a critical manning AFSC.

What does that mean?
It means that they may not offer you a rated slot bc they need you to fulfill that foreign language AFSC.
~ It has happened with engineers. There were kids in HS that "gamed" the system by applying tech as an EE major. 3 yrs later as they were up for the rated board they came to find out that EEs were now considered critical manning and less than 10% were allowed to go to UPT. The rest went EE ADAF.

Just food for thought.
 

Tbpxece

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Nov 13, 2018
Messages
770
@Pima brings up a great point about long-term strategy vs. short-term goals, and without

If your "tech degree" is engineering or a hard science (i.e. physics, chemistry, math), you are not necessarily locked into that career field post-military, but the degree itself opens a lot more doors than most non-technical degrees.

In other words, it is much easier to get into an MBA program with an engineering degree (often they waive the pre-requisites) than it is to get into an engineering masters program with a business degree. The same thing applies to careers. You can easily delve into a career as a journalist with an engineering degree than vice versa.

An engineering or hard science degree shows future employers that you can think and problem solve. Those abilities are in short supply and carry a lot more currency than you might think.

If your heart is in something non-technical, consider finishing your tech degree, and picking up a minor along the way in what you want. You also have the opportunity to go to grad school to study whatever you want. Foreign languages make great minors- and not so great majors.

The AF loves technical degrees. You will qualify for many more special opportunities in the AF with a technical background than you would with any other degree.

For example, consider the command route for fliers. These folks will have to pick up squadron command experience somewhere, and for most this runs through the Ops Squadron/OSS/AMXS/MXS (and occasionally FSS, LRS, or SFS) route, which creates a ton of competition. The fliers without a 32EX-compatible engineering/architectural degree eliminate themselves from consideration for CES commander. CE is often the largest squadron in MSG, which is usually the largest group on base (and often provides the bench for Wing CC/CV candidates). If you have a command route through CES, you will have an squadron command option available that a lot of your Ops peers will not.

Play the long game. Stay the course with your current degree plan-- it will pay off.
 
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