AFROTC DISENROLLMENT FOR FT NON-SELECT ((SCHOLARSHIP))

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by SeanM, May 21, 2018.

  1. SeanM

    SeanM New Member

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    Hello,

    I am posting here in hope to have some closure as to what will most likely happen regarding my current situation. If there is any insight on what may happen then please feel free to post below. I am not trying to get super personal, i am just seeking information. (cheers)

    Here is some background:
    I have completed 2 years in the AFROTC program and received an in-college scholarship during the summer of my freshman year (approx. July 2017 / while at the Ops Air Force program at Moody, AFB-GA). I consistently maintained a gpa well above 3.0, showed allot of leadership abilities compared to my pears, and consistently volunteered for AFROTC/booster club events to help the detachment; which is likely why i received the scholarship. I am by no means a PT stud and was awarded the scholarship at a time when the highest i'd ever scored was an 87 on the PFA (which I was proud of considering I had lost over 100-lbs just so i could get to that point). Unfortunately, my pt scores have not increased, but rather they plateaued around the mid-low 80's to this day (i had the flu and similar illness's throughout the year which made me run even slower than i already did). Last month I found out that I was not awarded a spot in field training. I have given this program my all (I improved on strengths and weaknesses of which I am proud), I put it all on the table every day and there's nothing left of me to give, i know pt was my weakness and I accept that as a fact. I continue to work on it, but at this point there is nothing more that i can do but wait for a final decision.
    ---and i will not pity myself over it, life is moving to fast to feel sorry for myself--

    Additionally, I have not committed any crimes and i did not quit, on the contrary i did what i could and was just not picked. My first semester on scholarship was never paid for, and in total with stipends i have only received about $5000/maybe closer to $6k now, which I wrote in a memorandum that I am more than willing to pay it back in full (at a moments notice). I was informed by cadre that they also recommended in their final summary that I should be let go with no debt, because it was minimal and i was simply not picked for FT, nothing more to it.

    (Once more: received stipend for less than a year and only received payment for one semester)

    - closing up-

    I am worried that I may be activated as an enlisted airman (it wouldn't be the end of the world), but I would much rather pay the money and move on with other opportunities to serve. I may even try for OTS or OCS (dependent on the branch) at a later date (besides the point). To help my file (or at-least hope it helps) I added several letters of recommendation from high ranking Officers and even my former employer (just got rehired) at a local government shooting range where I worked as a range officer. Additionally, I wrote a memorandum explaining that I have no intent to quit, nor give up my dedication to serve our country, but rather I may have to do in another way, which i found to be law enforcement.

    I am in an application pool at a local department which is definitely a place where I can grow into the leader I want to be in my community (and pays well enough that I can afford to live down here in South Florida). I love the mission of law enforcement and the idea of helping others on an daily basis (and personally). Being activated would take me away from this employment opportunity (which is going very well) and delay it for 2 years at a minimum.

    I hope to hear some input, anything helps. (if there is a similar case out there and you happen to know of it, please do not hesitate to post about it)

    --if it helps, my major is also public administration (non-tech)--

    --
    Respectfully,

    Sean M.
     
  2. AROTC-dad

    AROTC-dad Moderator

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    A few comments and questions.
    • Have you asked your cadre about the forced enlistment situation?
    • Have you spoken to the Army ROTC ROO about moving to AROTC and attending Basic Camp? (If you would be interested in serving as an Army officer).
    • Does the AFROTC contract mention anything about paying back the stipend? In AROTC, the stipend is not paid back, but scholarship funds are.
     
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  3. SeanM

    SeanM New Member

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    Thank you for the swift reply,

    I have spoken to the cadre at the detachment, according to them the decision is not in their hands and HQ will ultimately decide my faite.

    At the moment i don't believe i'd be 100% motivated to push into a career with the army, not that it isn't for me but rather i really want to serve in the law enforcement career field. (Maybe at a later date i may reconsider my options regarding military service)

    Regarding the stipend, i believe what you mentioned is also the same for the air force. But if it means them allowing me to the chance to leave on good terms, i am willing to pay every penny back in a heart beat.
     
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  4. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    Have you been told that your PT scores are the issue? It might just be a numbers thing related to how many 2 Lts they need to produce from your year group. Of course they cut from the bottom but that would bring your PT scores into play again.
     
  5. SeanM

    SeanM New Member

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    Hey, thanks for the reply.

    So PT scores, GPA, commanders ranking, and afoqt are the criteria used for selection (from my understanding). I have been told that my scores were low compared to others, but i did what i could with what i have. Additionally, the avg pfa scores for non-selects this year was almost 92 and for selects closer to 95, so unfortunately, my best being 87 was still far from close. I do believe it was a numbers thing, and i have no issue with it.

    At this point my primary concern is (whether i will be allowed to pay, or have to serve as active) - why should i have to serve 2 years if i held my end of the deal, the fact that i didnt get picked is not 100% my fault, the organization knew my pfa scores were not in the high 90's when i was offered the scholarship.
     
  6. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    I'm no AFROTC expert but from what little I know of their PFT scoring you are satisfactory. Based on your comments you appear to be satisfactory in the other areas as well. I may be totally wrong on this but if you didn't fail anything, but just failed to make the SFT cut, then I'm not sure you're under any obligation to pay or serve. After all, this is an action they're taking. Your cadre, or your contract, would provide you more insight on this.
     
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  7. AROTC-dad

    AROTC-dad Moderator

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  8. SeanM

    SeanM New Member

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    Right my PT is definitely is in need of improvement, unfortunately 2/3 of my time in AFROTC was spent doing PT (so the cadre really only knew me for my pt side, until they put me to lead and i excelled in that). Aside from that everything i do in the program i do very well. The cadre really just seem to not know what to expect when it comes to my dismissal, so that brought me here. I wouldn't expect everyone to know just because this is an unusual position to be in, but i do appreciate feedback.
     
  9. SeanM

    SeanM New Member

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  10. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    It might have been not only the PT score, but also the fact that you are a non-tech major and want a non-rated slot. Nontech/non-rated slots for SFT are always the lowest amount awarded, add this with a very low PFT and unfortunately you were facing an uphill battle regarding getting selected. The boards typically have the highest rates for tech/rated, than followed by non-tech/rated and tech/non-rated, and lastly your group non-tech/non-rated. A few years back when the overall rate was 55%, only 17% were given to non-tech/non-rated.

    As your cadre told you, it really will come down to HQ AFROTC to decide anything. They may turn to you and allow you to become an AS500.
     
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  11. SeanM

    SeanM New Member

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    Thank you for your reply,

    In the case that they allow me to become an AS500, would that be optional? Or by "allow" do they mean i have to? Also, i did go for rated but was apparently not qualified for pilot do to vision, i did however qualify for rpa abm and cso, and placed them all as high priority. I wanted the aetc to have zero additional reasons to not pick me since i knew my pfa scores were already not so great.

    I don't mean to be so difficult, i am just having great luck at the moment when it comes to a career in law enforcement, and i'd like to get my career started while i'm young since it's 25-30 years for the pension.

    Again, Thank you

    Regards,
    Sean M.
     
  12. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    You seem more intent on pursuing a law enforcement career outside the Air Force than you are on remaining in AFROTC and commissioning. Which is it? After all, you'll find out rather soon and I don't think the amount of time involved in that will derail any career in law enforcement.

    BTW - If I'm picking up that vibe maybe your cadre is too?

    EDIT: Again, I'm surmising here, but if they offer to make you an AS500, yes it's optional in the sense that you can decline. However, I would expect pay back or service would be required at that point. In this scenario, you're the one breaking the contract.
     
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  13. SeanM

    SeanM New Member

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    --

    I see and am not arguing that, but i have been 100% commited to the program. Unfortunately, during the disenrollment investigation the way they made me feel was as if i did them a diservice which has dissappointed me just because i have given so much time and effort. At this point, you're right. Yes, my drive is for a law enforcement career, they know and are supporting it as well with letters of recomendation and so on (but during the time that i was in and competing for FT, that was my one and only purpose, the way i see it is that the air force made their selection and did not pick me, i need to move on but carefully because of the final decision). The cadre have advised me to let the department know of what could happen which is what brought me here, to find out what has happend to the scholarship non-selects in the past. The last thing i want to do is waist the departments money.

    Hope you understand how i see it at this point.

    But to answer your question, when i got the scholarship and was still competing i wanted this more than anything, i put it all on the table and just didn't quite make the cut
    .
     
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  14. eljay60

    eljay60 AFROTC parent, former ANC in USAR

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    From what the cadre told my son, so long as you passed the PT test - even with a 75 - you met the minimum requirements for the scholarship and the decision to not offer you a FT billet is on the AF, not on you - assuming you have met all other requirements in the contract.
     
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  15. SeanM

    SeanM New Member

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    If you don't mind me asking, what was the final decision in your son's case? (If it has been concluded already)

    Thank you for the reply

    Regards
    Sean M.
     
  16. eljay60

    eljay60 AFROTC parent, former ANC in USAR

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    There was no case - it was in a briefing he received this spring. This is what he was told: as a HSSP (4 year scholarship), either side can terminate the contract after Freshman year with nothing owed either way. However, as soon as he walks into class as a 200, he owes the scholarship money for sophmore AND freshman year, or an enlistment (up to the AF to decide) if HE breaks the contract (grades, PFT minimum, legal trouble, etc.). If he meets the contract minimums but is not selected for FT after sophomore year, he owes nothing - he would have met the contract conditions, and the AF would be the one to break the contract.

    In the briefing he was also told that if he is not selected for FT between sophomore and junior year but thinks he would be selected the following year, there is an option to continue the scholarship into junior year - but if he wasn't selected the second time, he would owe three years back. Cadets that take this option typically have a specific reason for not being selected for field training, such as an injury which prevents PFT participation, a single bad semester/class, or a poor showing on the AFOQT that can be improved. So at that point, the cadet is taking on a bigger risk, because even if the minimums are met, if the cadet doesn't go to field training, the money is owed. As an adult, I wouldn't take the third year option if the cadre wasn't encouraging me to do so - but I'm pretty risk averse.

    Good luck.
     
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  17. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    @SeanM Understood. Your reasoning seems sound. Again, I concur with @eljay60 that you should not be required to repay or serve. You're right to be careful at this time.
     
  18. SeanM

    SeanM New Member

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    Great input, i really appreciate it! I am also not the biggest risk taker and knowing what i know now i don't believe i'd consider that option. If i was to come back, i would try to pay my debts and return as a non scholarship cadet. That way no debts could be held against me if i was to not be selected once again.

    Regards,
    Sean M.