Graduate School Directly After College/NROTC

K

Kanogo

midn
Joined
May 4, 2021
Messages
35
I am interested in attending graduate school (with interests in pursuing either a MPP, MPA, or MGA) right after I complete my undergraduate studies and receive my commission from NROTC.

I want to know what are the possibilities of the Navy allowing me to do this, and what the commonality of this happening is as well.

All information is appreciated. Thank you in advanced.
 
You will probably get a better response in the ROTC forum, especially from our resident PNS @GWU PNS

I’ll give you some general thoughts.

The majority of newly commissioned line officers out of all commissioning sources do not go directly to graduate school after commissioning. They get on with getting professionally trained and qualified in their warfare specialty, as they are the replacement generation for that year’s accession cohort of O-1s to serve the needs of the Navy and Marine Corps and manpower staffing goals. A body in grad school is not contributing to the operation of a Navy ship or getting trained in the nuclear pipeline to fulfill operational submarine manpower needs two years later.

Officers are expected to get their post-graduate degrees, though, and there are numerous options during and after sea duty/operational tours. There is full-time graduate school duty at the Naval Postgraduate School or other military colleges. There are full-time opportunities at civilian institutions. There is Tuition Assistance to help pay for remote or after-hours on-site grad school. Some sample research.

Naval Postgraduate School - Naval Postgraduate School

The Naval Postgraduate School provides defense-focused graduate education, including classified studies and interdisciplinary research, to advance the operational effectiveness, technological leadership and warfighting advantage of the Naval service.
www.nps.edu www.nps.edu

Navy Makes Changes to Tuition Assistance | Military.com

www.military.com www.military.com


Be aware any time you get a degree using Navy time or Navy dime, you will owe additional obligated service. This ADSO may run concurrently with your initial ADSO or may be consecutive, starting after you complete your initial ADSO.

You can also fund your own study after hours and not incur ADSO.

If you do the required years of service to qualify, you will earn the generous Post 9/11 GI Bill educational benefit from the VA after you separate.
www.va.gov

Post-9/11 GI Bill (Chapter 33) | Veterans Affairs

The Post-9/11 GI Bill (Chapter 33) helps you pay for school or cover expenses while you’re training for a job. If you’ve served on active duty after September 10, 2001, you may qualify for the Post-9/11 GI Bill (Chapter 33). Find out if you can get this education benefit.
www.va.gov www.va.gov

All that said, very small handfuls of newly commissioned Navy ensigns are allowed to go to medical school or grad school. Very small. Rhodes Scholars, sure. As always, it will depend on the needs of the Navy or Marine Corps. If your warm body is needed to meet operational staffing requirements, that will outweigh your personal desire to continue as a student.

If you are a NROTC midshipman, you have a chain of command, your primary official source, which is where you should start your research.


One thing you do have control over is your own performance. Be that academically and physically sat-plus midshipman, the top performer, the proactive volunteer for the thankless jobs, the hard charger, the generous shipmate, the one with the positive, mature attitude, flawless conduct and military bearing. Then you have a shot at getting the PNS’ endorsement for any requests for applications to immediate graduate school programs.

There is also no mad rush. Think of it this way. The earlier you get your Master’s, the older and less fresh it will be when you eventually separate, than if you got it a few years later. You also likely have another 70-80 years on the planet. There is time.

Be open to the journey - you may get excited by warfare specialty paths, and be ready to leap out of the ivory tower and get on with earning your warfare qualifications in the far corners of the world. Get out to sea and work hard at being a leader, then enjoy rolling ashore and, say, going to Georgetown, as a USNA sponsor family alumni just did, wrapping up a restful but challenging 2 years getting a prestigious Master’s from Georgetown after some arduous sea duty after graduating from USNA. They said the majority of students in their class either had a few years of work or other experience and were not fresh out of college, including several other AD service academy grads but not new grads.

Do the research. Be open to all opportunities.
 
Last edited:
IMO (and based on personal experience), most people are better off doing something "productive" for a few years before going on to grad school. There are obviously some exceptions to this "rule," but not many.

When you finish college, you will have spent ALL of your memorable life going to school. 16 years of school. Maybe you've worked summer jobs and maybe you've held down a part-time job. But your focus has been on school. Your self-worth is generally based on how well you did in school.

Take the time to do something else for a few years. This helps for several reasons. First, it gives you a break from "book" school (you might have training for your job, but it's practical, not reading Shakespeare or doing calculus problems). It gets you out of the go to class / do homework / study for exams mindset. Second, you develop a different type of self-worth -- how well you do in your JOB. Some people are not great book learners but they can certainly produce in the workforce. Third, you appreciate school a lot more once you've worked. 3 classes a day seems pretty nice when you've been working 10-hour days. Those long breaks seem really nice when you get 2-3 weeks of vacation. Fourth, you have a better perspective of what type of graduate school interests you and / or will help you going forward. Fifth, you will have earned money to pay for it. Finally, some people who start working realize they don't need / want grad school to further their careers -- and that's not a bad thing.

Years ago at BGO training, someone asked USNA's senior medical officer about candidates who want to go to med school directly from USNA. His advice: "Do something fun first and then go to med school." He noted that there are very successful med students / doctors who spent a few years up to 20 years doing something other than medical stuff and that, once you go to med school, it's really hard to go back to doing the fun stuff (well, I actually knew someone who became an MD and then a fighter pilot, but that's another story).

MBA programs require 2 years of work experience before starting the program and I wish other graduate programs did the same. My time as an officer made me a better student, a happier student, and made me better in my current career.
 
By "Productive" and "Fun" do you mean fulfilling their military commitment? Daughter has some great stories regarding current Law School students in her class straight out of undergraduate. Back in the day my MBA classes were the same. After military service they all seem like kids without an anchor;)
 
^^^^

Yes, for SA types, it means fulfilling your military commitment or even doing more than the minimum. For non-military types, it means getting a job, preferably one that leads to a career. In law school, a decent number of the students in my class had actually worked for a couple of years, but in jobs such as bank teller and ear piercer (not kidding). They realized work was hard and decided going back to school (especially if mom and dad were paying for it), was a lot easier.

I see these kids show up as junior associates -- a lot of them have no clue what it means to work hard or to think of something other than yourself. For example: "It's my birthday, I'm taking the day off" (regardless of client obligations). Really? You're 28, not 8.

I also think that many students are burned out at the end of college. I was. Exchanging the classroom / educational grind for the work grind may not be easier, but it is a change of venue, perspective, and routine. It's also nice to get a paycheck instead of writing a check to the educational institution. It also allows you to think about grad school -- what are your goals? What program makes sense?

Those offered post-grad scholarships (e.g., Fulbright) should obviously take them. And there are benefits to attending med school reasonably soon after graduating college (though there are those who do it successfully years later) since the knowledge from college courses helps in early med school classes. But everyone else should take a chill pill -- get out and work for a while and THEN do grad school.
 
usna1985 said:
^^^^

Yes, for SA types, it means fulfilling your military commitment or even doing more than the minimum. For non-military types, it means getting a job, preferably one that leads to a career. In law school, a decent number of the students in my class had actually worked for a couple of years, but in jobs such as bank teller and ear piercer (not kidding). They realized work was hard and decided going back to school (especially if mom and dad were paying for it), was a lot easier.

I see these kids show up as junior associates -- a lot of them have no clue what it means to work hard or to think of something other than yourself. For example: "It's my birthday, I'm taking the day off" (regardless of client obligations). Really? You're 28, not 8.

I also think that many students are burned out at the end of college. I was. Exchanging the classroom / educational grind for the work grind may not be easier, but it is a change of venue, perspective, and routine. It's also nice to get a paycheck instead of writing a check to the educational institution. It also allows you to think about grad school -- what are your goals? What program makes sense?

Those offered post-grad scholarships (e.g., Fulbright) should obviously take them. And there are benefits to attending med school reasonably soon after graduating college (though there are those who do it successfully years later) since the knowledge from college courses helps in early med school classes. But everyone else should take a chill pill -- get out and work for a while and THEN do grad school.
Click to expand...
I just wrote a letter to a faculty adviser of mine at my undergraduate university, who just turned 100, beloved of students and sharp as ever, though long retired from regular teaching. He is a former Army officer who used his GI Bill to go to grad school after WWII.

I thanked him for assuring me many years ago my senior year in college, when I had received a generous graduate school fellowship at a big name school but planned to kick over the traces and go to Navy OCS (to the horror of most of my profs), that “The Navy will be the making of you. You will be challenged, you will grow, you will experience the real world, you will think of others before yourself. Graduate school will always be there. If you get out after your obligated service and want that fellowship again, Dr. F (my Honors advisor and an Air Force vet) and I will help you. Grad schools love people with seasoning.” He played a pivotal role in a choice I have never regretted, which led to 26 years of Navy service, two Master’s on the Navy’s dime, and unforgettable experiences.
 
DS is considering applying for a scholarship that would send him to grad school immediately after commissioning.

I've read all of the remarks above, is there a hard and fast 'don't do it, not a good idea' here? If that were the case, why would USNA offer these scholarships? Maybe not for everyone?

Thanks in advance for input.
 
Heatherg21 said:
DS is considering applying for a scholarship that would send him to grad school immediately after commissioning.

I've read all of the remarks above, is there a hard and fast 'don't do it, not a good idea' here? If that were the case, why would USNA offer these scholarships? Maybe not for everyone?

Thanks in advance for input.
Click to expand...
Certainly the ones that are Cambridge, Oxford, Trinity, the Rhodes, the Fulbright, etc., for a very small handful, are good for the Navy and Marine Corps and USNA. Nothing wrong with warrior-scholars. It does put them behind classmates by at least a year, often 2, in professional development, especially in warfare specialties with multi-year training pipelines. On the other hand, they will already have their Master’s, so they are free to do things like be a flag aide to an admiral or general or go work at the White House during their first non-operational tour after they complete initial operational tours. As a sponsor alumni of ours said after they reported as a Lieutenant (O-3) to their first sub after going to Harvard for 2 years then nuke pipeline,”That was a looonng fall from the ivory tower to being the stupidest and most unqualified LT on the boat. Absolutely no one cared I had a Harvard Kennedy School Master’s. I couldn’t even fill a spot on a watchbill the same as my age peers.” Classmates were 2 years ahead; alumni mid had to work like a demon.

Of course, 2010 grad Kayla Barron did one of those, then was in first group of women to subs, now an astronaut.

Many of our sponsor mids over the years have applied. Some have gotten some, then decided “naw, I wanna go fly now.” Fortunate this one did, they were handpicked to be in the first to transition from P-3 to P-8, then headed up instructor pilot curriculum, then later went to Tufts School of Law and Diplomacy.

Your DS should “do the program” with the group doing that, just to see how it plays out. He’ll still have to do service selection. He can make a final choice way down the road, see how the pros and cons sound to him. Mids don’t really know yet about all the excellent post-grad programs available to them as officers, which is what the majority of officers do.

Apologies to the OP, as these comments relate to USNA, as I know @Heatherg21 has a mid at USNA - but much of it holds true for NROTC grads.
 
Last edited:
Heatherg21 said:
DS is considering applying for a scholarship that would send him to grad school immediately after commissioning.

I've read all of the remarks above, is there a hard and fast 'don't do it, not a good idea' here? If that were the case, why would USNA offer these scholarships? Maybe not for everyone?

Thanks in advance for input.
Click to expand...
Two years of graduate education will put you at LTJG. Add initial accession training, various bits of TAD periods, leave, etc. You show up to the Fleet as a LTJG with a short amount of time before LT, or as an LT. Not a single qualification to your name. You get ranked at the bottom of a competitive group as an O3 for a good while before you can earn a warfare pin (12-18 months, depending) and start climbing.

Same drawback applies for graduate education at any other point as well. You will often trade a competitive tour for a tour where your performance is not rated and considered null.

It's certainly doable, but more difficult. For some communities with very short promotion zones, it might start encroaching on unadvisable, but that's a discussion with a detailer/community manager. Some programs will require detailer endorsement for this reason.
 
In her 2C year, DD1 decided that she was going to seek 3 separate, but interconnected goals. Her position was that she was going for it and the powers that be would have to tell her no. She busted her tail and ended up achieving all 3 (one is still provisional based on 1C performance). If everything goes according to her plan, she will get her Master's next year on the Navy' s dime with an associated increase in service commitment.

Are there pros and cons to any plan of action? Of course. But everybody has to assess their path based on their own personal assessment of risk/ reward.

If you want it, then go for it and deal with the consequences. Every path has its benefits and costs.
 
usna1985 said:
MBA programs require 2 years of work experience before starting the program and I wish other graduate programs did the same.
Click to expand...
^^^ THIS ^^^

Couldn’t agree more that the vast majority of students would be well served to get a few years of work experience before attending grad school. You will know more about how the world works, know better how to apply what you're leaning, know more stuff that allows you to make substantive contributions in class, know better how to apply yourself to make the enormous cost pay off. Most grad schools are not like undergrad, where a professor lectures and you listen. (Full disclosure: I teach undergrad college courses.) Instead, it’s largely a self-directed learning experience, and it’s a lot about what you bring, not just about what you hope to get.

Clarifying a bit on pre-business school requirement for work experience: The two years that @usna1985 mentions is the average of all schools. The elite B-schools (Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Northwestern, Wharton, etc.) actually prefer candidates with 4-5 years of work experience. One of my B-school classmates had a stellar college record and GMAT scores through the roof. He was accepted but told his entrance would be deferred so he could get one more year of experience. He had only three years. Many of my classmates were former JMOs; their average length of work experience was quite a bit more than that of us civilians. They were noticeably disciplined, focused, driven. And very fun too!
 
Last edited:
I’m curious where Naval Post Graduate school in Monterey falls in the overall assessment here.

I appreciate the experience and expertise that is being shared.
 
Heatherg21 said:
I’m curious where Naval Post Graduate school in Monterey falls in the overall assessment here.

I appreciate the experience and expertise that is being shared.
Click to expand...
NPS is a bit different. Accelerated programs for a 1 year M.S./M.A. exist specifically to minimize the impact to career progression discussed, provided the officer is attending immediately after graduation and meets admission requirements. The officer will still have to figure out completion of JPME (likely via distance learning while balancing a day job) and will still be a year behind, but it's better than being two years behind.

NPS has a process for calculating an "academic profile code" that serves as the admissions process. Recommend all officers submit the paperwork to NPS to have it calculated as soon as possible.
 
nuensis said:
NPS is a bit different. Accelerated programs for a 1 year M.S./M.A. exist specifically to minimize the impact to career progression discussed, provided the officer is attending immediately after graduation and meets admission requirements. The officer will still have to figure out completion of JPME (likely via distance learning while balancing a day job) and will still be a year behind, but it's better than being two years behind.

NPS has a process for calculating an "academic profile code" that serves as the admissions process. Recommend all officers submit the paperwork to NPS to have it calculated as soon as possible.
Click to expand...
Thank you. What he is planning to apply for would be specific to this school. I will pass this on.
 
Also, not asking to guide him or decide for him. More to understand the thought process.

He has had stellar mentorship and continues to meet officers who impact him in meaningful ways.

I’m just the mom back here trying to understand the acronyms. This is his journey for sure.
 
Heatherg21 said:
I’m curious where Naval Post Graduate school in Monterey falls in the overall assessment here.

I appreciate the experience and expertise that is being shared.
Click to expand...
DH and I are both NPS grads. Loved it there. Several of my profs were on sabbatical from “big name” grad schools, doing research and teaching a class at NPS as a visiting prof. VADM (Ret) Ann Rondeau, someone whom I was honored to call a mentor on active duty, a brilliant person and strong leader, White House Fellow, is the President, leading a number of initiatives to drive the school forward.

[Notice her pin and my avatar (I have same pin). “Power jewelry” from Ann Hand, the accessory of choice for women in defense now wearing civvies. Mine was a gift from DH at my retirement from AD.]

President - Naval Postgraduate School

nps.edu nps.edu
 
Capt MJ said:
DH and I are both NPS grads. Loved it there. Several of my profs were on sabbatical from “big name” grad schools, doing research and teaching a class at NPS as a visiting prof. VADM (Ret) Ann Rondeau, someone whom I was honored to call a mentor on active duty, a brilliant person and strong leader, White House Fellow, is the President, leading a number of initiatives to drive the school forward.
Click to expand...
Well that is a ringing endorsement if there ever was one.

Thank you. He has time to simmer and slow cook, ‘braise’, his plans. But as always he is forward leaning and looking at the future. It seems to be in his nature.

I am very confident he has excellent counsel on the Yard. His mentors, company officers, instructors, etc. have provided so much in terms of real world experiences.
 
Also consider graduate education will incur consecutive (not concurrent) service obligation. Relatively recent policy change.
 
nuensis said:
Also consider graduate education will incur consecutive (not concurrent) service obligation. Relatively recent policy change.
Click to expand...
Changing concurrent to consecutive or reverse is always a bellwether for retention-related force shaping actions. I have seen it go back and forth many times. Thank you for sharing current policy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top